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Waterford; Ireland's Forgotten City

Baby4

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Minto

Cosmonaut wrote:

the worst beach in the south east

sorry now totally off topic, but what is up with Tramore beach (besides a bit, ok a lot of pollution)? it's a great beach to go for a swim (infact i'm just back from a swim down there now) and it's known all over the country for its surf!

Baby4

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merlante

Responded to this before, but something went wrong...

mfitzy wrote:

Oh god hear we go once again....I have not heard one local politician (apart from one Carlow one) say KK should get a uni over Waterford or made statements like 'move the regional hosp' up to Kilkenny.That's nonsense.I myself have actually signed a Waterford led petition for a university.

Believe it or not, about 2 years ago a Kilkenny TD came on WLR suggesting that the WRH be moved to Kilkenny! Can't remember the name, but I'm sure someone will remember.

That's pretty upitty given the hospital is actually built and in situ.

mfitzy wrote:

Can you please be more specific on the previous university campaigns you say the people of KK blocked???
Here's one local future TD that supports it clearly:
http://www.johnpaulphelan.com/read_press.php?PressID=101

Fair enough, a close relative of mine was on the Waterford University Action group around 1990, and he tells me that one of the reasons for the failure to get a university then was that the Kilkenny contingent that they got involved were too interested in getting this proposed university situated in Kilkenny, and a location could not be agreed on.

For a town not even half the size of Waterford, that was pretty upitty behaviour, for lack of a better word.

I'd like to think that those days are being us now.

mfitzy wrote:

And when exactly have we had the same amount of clout?- it's been a generation since we had a senior minister in Jim Gibbons, and it shows. Lucky for Waterford theyve had Cullen for the last year and I don't begrudge them it one bit- it has to be good for the region in my view to have representation at cabinet level.

According to the Phoenix in the News & Star (not a liar, whatever else you might think of him), the WRH would have gone to Kilkenny, except for the fact that the only other Waterford minister we've had, Austin Deasy, threatened to resign from the cabinet if it didn't go to Waterford.

Considering Waterford is by far the largest centre in the south east, this shows that Kilkenny had some clout back in those days. In fact as part of a compromise to Kilkenny, the south eastern health board was established in Kilkenny.

I was listening to some national radio station a while back where a Waterford man was making a case for a university, amongst other things, and he mentioned that Waterford, being the regional capital, blaa, blaa... The presenter then asked him, so Kilkenny have actually accepted that then, that Waterford is the capital? This comment shows clearly that, in the eyes of many, Kilkenny had as much clout as Waterford back in the day, for a much lower population.

mfitzy wrote:

Wohoo Hub Status under the NSS, like that means anything in fairness- the NSS is yet another governemnt failure and attempt to hoodwink voters into thinking theyre actaully doing something meaningful for the regions.

Fair enough. But compare yourselves with Clonmel, nobody is even promising them any future prosperity. Clonmel seems to be a quiet sort of place, like Waterford (was) in miniature.

mfitzy wrote:

KK has a percieved better repuation due to the hard work and commitment of a few in the local civic and business community, certainly not down to favouritism shown to us by government.
When you really look at it clinically, there is in fact little concrete amjor things like a college or regional hosp you can point to in Kilkenny.It is fast becoming another souless outpost of Dublin like every other town in Leinster.

Yeah, but people work hard in Waterford too. I think that Kilkenny just don't take no for an answer as much. Some of the rhetoric coming out of Kilkenny regarding the boundary extension, for example, would make people think twice about upsetting them.

And yeah, regional colleges weren't a big deal back in the day, but I'm sure Carlow are very glad to have an IT now. Kilkenny should benefit in some way from a university of the south east. But even regarding the latest university proposal, I hear that Kilkenny were asking for the IT department to go to Kilkenny, which is a bit much given that IT is one of WIT biggest strengths, which presumably they knew. (WIT have just built an IT building on a new campus recently iirc.) So they had some neck to be making noises about wanting that.

As for a regional hospital, that is in the largest regional centre which is where it should be. Although people still have to travel to St. Lukes for certain treatments (e.g. eye treatments), which I find odd, considering it's only supposed to be a general hospital. So I think Kilkenny punches above its weight here also.

mfitzy wrote:

And yes, if we had a senior minister that oversaw one of the biggest wastes of taxpayers money and was embroiled in a controversy involving awarding of lucrative govt PR contracts to close personal friends I would be one of the first to criticise them. It's not because he is from Waterford thew rest of the country dislike/distrust him- it is for the reasons I have just outlined. There is no anti-Waterford conspiracy, singling Cullen out as incompetent- the rest are just as bad too.

I was not so much defending Cullen as I was pointing out the fact that other ministers, who might have more to hide, get a lot less media attention. This is because they have more friends in high places and their constituencies are fully behind them.

In any case, he was cleared of PR contract thing.

road_high

So you reckon we should have to travel to Waterford for everything simply because it's the largest urban centre in the south east.In fact, when you look at the catchement area of St. Lukes in say a 40/50 mile radius you will get a bigger population than same surrounding Waterford.It also is the general hosp for two counties, plus a bit of south Laois and Kildare.

Did the Regional Hosp. go to KK-NO, Deasy obviously got his way then didn't he?
Did a university go here instead of Waterford-NO.

You're accusing KK of gaining things at Waterfords expense when in fact we never did.
If you ask me, this all healthy competition anayway, keeps both areas on their toes!

Baby4

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DéiseGirl

kano476 wrote:

eh? lol first ive heard of this! where the hell did you get that out of!? I honestly cant understand where the town has got this rep from.

leave the tramafricans out of this too, theyre nice people!

First I've heard of it too, but then again, I'd say the place has really gone to the dogs since my dad retired from the Guards

Baby4

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merlante

mfitzy wrote:

So you reckon we should have to travel to Waterford for everything simply because it's the largest urban centre in the south east.In fact, when you look at the catchement area of St. Lukes in say a 40/50 mile radius you will get a bigger population than same surrounding Waterford.It also is the general hosp for two counties, plus a bit of south Laois and Kildare.

Did the Regional Hosp. go to KK-NO, Deasy obviously got his way then didn't he?
Did a university go here instead of Waterford-NO.

You're accusing KK of gaining things at Waterfords expense when in fact we never did.
If you ask me, this all healthy competition anayway, keeps both areas on their toes!

Okay, I'm not trying to annoy anybody here. I was just trying to make the point that some counties shout louder than others, and really Kilkenny have benefited from shouting loud.

Kilkenny are on the map in Dublin more than Waterford. It does very well in tourism, and I know Kilkenny is very well laid out and has a nice castle, etc., but Waterford is not a wasteland either.

My thinking on hospitals is this: you have some services that you want in every locale, namely maternity (I know what they're doing!), A&E, normal injuries, overnight monitoring or whatever, patient recovery from surgery, simple surgeries, etc. However, other, more costly, specialist services cannot be provided in every locale, but should be provided on a regional basis, in a regional hospital. Generally speaking I think such services should all be in one hospital, otherwise you might have a situation where a patient is travelling between two hospitals on a continuous basis to treat two slightly different but interrelated problems. (e.g. going to WRH for chemotherapy and going to Dublin for radiotherapy)

Then there are those treatments that are very new or very specialist and they should be provided only by one or two hospitals in the state. No use the WRH getting a slice of that pie, might as well have those treatments in Dublin or Cork and keep them together for consistency.

Just my opinion.

btw. Your population argument is moot. There are more people living in a 40/50 miles radius of Kildare town than Dublin city centre (because of course Dublin city centre is within that radius of Kildare), but most people live in Dublin so that's a better place for specialist hospitals.

There are almost as many people in an 8 mile radius of Waterford city (around 75,000) as there are in the whole of Co. Kilkenny (87,394). More people have to travel for services in Kilkenny than services in Waterford.

The number of people in a 30/40 miles radius of Waterford minus Kilkenny city is probably of a similar number to the number of people in a 30/40 miles radius of Kilkenny minus Waterford city. (Despite the sea being 8 miles south of Waterford.) Waterford is probably a better compromise between South Tipp. and Wexford too. (Particularly roadwise.)

The point I was trying to make is that even though Kilkenny did not get many of the things it was after, it was in the running, which says a lot considering its population. That's all I was trying to say. Fair enough it has needs the same as Waterford has.

I don't think this is healthy competition between Waterford and Kilkenny. Imagine splitting Cork up into four counties. Do you think that would increase or reduce that region? If they co-operated, it might, but if they spent all their time fighting they'd get nowhere. We need to compete with other regions, not each other. Lets not make the fact that counties in the south east are geographically smaller a handicap for us in the modern age.

I don't know what your take on the state of the N9 is, but most Waterford people are under the impression that Kilkenny were happy to leave it go. i.e. effectively saboutaged the road.

Anyway, lets not turn this into an out and out Waterford v Kilkenny thread ok. Just making a few observations.

merlante

D&#233 wrote: »

First I've heard of it too, but then again, I'd say the place has really gone to the dogs since my dad retired from the Guards

By the sound of it I'd say there's a few guards being forced into 'early retirement' out there now.

Shore I hare tis like LAye out dare now!

Bards

mfitzy wrote:

If you ask me, this all healthy competition anayway, keeps both areas on their toes!

This is not healthy at all. We should be pulling together and marketing ourselves as one region with ONE voice. not a bunch of seperate couinties bickering over who got what.

Personally I think it was great for the S.E that Cashel got 400 jobs during the week

Baby4

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Trotter

mfitzy wrote:

If you ask me, this all healthy competition anayway, keeps both areas on their toes!

This is the problem. It keeps us on our toes? It distracts our energies from trying to promote the region. Sure leave Waterford and KK off, they'll fight among themselves while the rest unite and get things done.

Great idea there.. its far from healthy competition.

Schuhart

mfitzy wrote:

I have not heard one local politician (apart from one Carlow one) say KK should get a uni over Waterford or made statements like 'move the regional hosp' up to Kilkenny.

I think this is the kind of thing they mean. This person is making his support conditional on a portion of the University having a local, physical presence in Kilkenny. Maybe it would anyway – many Universities have outreach programmes – but that is hardly the point. Blatently flying a local flag like this when the prospect of University status is far from certain does not help the campaign.

We want and need a regional university led by the Waterford Institute which is currently operating as a university in all but name.” Mr Cronin [Fergus Cronin, chairman, Kilkenny Industrial Development Company (KIDCO) ] added. “A physical presence for this university in Kilkenny would be important with a concentration of resources on areas of existing excellence.”

In fairness, this narrow approach is better illustrated by the following story from the Carlow Nationalist, which does seek to undermine the WIT campaign. The case presented is utterly self serving and parochial, and weakens the synergy of the region.

Report recommending Waterford University is rubbished in Carlow

A REPORT recommending the upgrading of Waterford IT to a university has led to staunch criticism from two Carlow officials. County Carlow Chamber of Commerce and Cllr Walter Lacey attacked the report from Goodbody’s feeling it had “no real substance” and its makers, Goodbody’s, had “damaged the independence (of the report) by singling out a particular county”.

<snip>

Cllr Walter Lacey felt the vast majority of arguments favoured a university for the Carlow/Kilkenny region.

“Carlow IT is one the oldest and most progressive in the country,” he said. “In Carlow we also have a second third-level education centre in Saint Patrick’s College. Carlow also has the infrastructure to cater for a university with easy accessibility.

“Why is it assumed that universities must be located in cities? A central location like Carlow would make it attractive to potential students and more accessible than Waterford. It is a nightmare trying to secure accommodation in the larger cities.

“Carlow’s recent boom in building and the provision of specialist student accommodation would make it easier and more attractive for students. I believe Goodbody’s have damaged the independence of their report by singling out a particular county.”

Clearly none of this means that all Kilkenny people and all Carlow people are out to undermine the WIT campaign. But certainly parochial thinking by many ultimately costs the region.

road_high

Schuhart wrote:

I think this is the kind of thing they mean. This person is making his support conditional on a portion of the University having a local, physical presence in Kilkenny. Maybe it would anyway – many Universities have outreach programmes – but that is hardly the point. Blatently flying a local flag like this when the prospect of University status is far from certain does not help the campaign. In fairness, this narrow approach is better illustrated by the following story from the Carlow Nationalist, which does seek to undermine the WIT campaign. The case presented is utterly self serving and parochial, and weakens the synergy of the region. Clearly none of this means that all Kilkenny people and all Carlow people are out to undermine the WIT campaign. But certainly parochial thinking by many ultimately costs the region.

Walter Lacey is a muppet in my view; his opinion doesn't count for much in my eyes..He's a PD and theyre a sinking ship as far as i'm concerned really!

But I thought that guy you mentioned from KK Chamber of Commerce there made a fairly valid point. I mean, Kilkenny is not demanding the whole uni or even a lead role- that would clearly be WIT's role, just a department is all.

road_high

merlante wrote:

Okay, I'm not trying to annoy anybody here. I was just trying to make the point that some counties shout louder than others, and really Kilkenny have benefited from shouting loud.

Kilkenny are on the map in Dublin more than Waterford. It does very well in tourism, and I know Kilkenny is very well laid out and has a nice castle, etc., but Waterford is not a wasteland either.

My thinking on hospitals is this: you have some services that you want in every locale, namely maternity (I know what they're doing!), A&E, normal injuries, overnight monitoring or whatever, patient recovery from surgery, simple surgeries, etc. However, other, more costly, specialist services cannot be provided in every locale, but should be provided on a regional basis, in a regional hospital. Generally speaking I think such services should all be in one hospital, otherwise you might have a situation where a patient is travelling between two hospitals on a continuous basis to treat two slightly different but interrelated problems. (e.g. going to WRH for chemotherapy and going to Dublin for radiotherapy)

Then there are those treatments that are very new or very specialist and they should be provided only by one or two hospitals in the state. No use the WRH getting a slice of that pie, might as well have those treatments in Dublin or Cork and keep them together for consistency.

Just my opinion.

btw. Your population argument is moot. There are more people living in a 40/50 miles radius of Kildare town than Dublin city centre (because of course Dublin city centre is within that radius of Kildare), but most people live in Dublin so that's a better place for specialist hospitals.

There are almost as many people in an 8 mile radius of Waterford city (around 75,000) as there are in the whole of Co. Kilkenny (87,394). More people have to travel for services in Kilkenny than services in Waterford.

The number of people in a 30/40 miles radius of Waterford minus Kilkenny city is probably of a similar number to the number of people in a 30/40 miles radius of Kilkenny minus Waterford city. (Despite the sea being 8 miles south of Waterford.) Waterford is probably a better compromise between South Tipp. and Wexford too. (Particularly roadwise.)

The point I was trying to make is that even though Kilkenny did not get many of the things it was after, it was in the running, which says a lot considering its population. That's all I was trying to say. Fair enough it has needs the same as Waterford has.

I don't think this is healthy competition between Waterford and Kilkenny. Imagine splitting Cork up into four counties. Do you think that would increase or reduce that region? If they co-operated, it might, but if they spent all their time fighting they'd get nowhere. We need to compete with other regions, not each other. Lets not make the fact that counties in the south east are geographically smaller a handicap for us in the modern age.

I don't know what your take on the state of the N9 is, but most Waterford people are under the impression that Kilkenny were happy to leave it go. i.e. effectively saboutaged the road.

Anyway, lets not turn this into an out and out Waterford v Kilkenny thread ok. Just making a few observations.

Couldn't agree more with your last point there...

My take on the N9 is that it is the worst N road in the country and has been disgracefully neglected by central powers for decades whilst other less strategically important roads like the N4 were comprehensively upgraded.
I blame the governement of the last ten years squarely for not accelerating the planned upgrade at a time of supposed unprecendented wealth in this country.
The new road can't come soon enough for Kilkenny, Waterford and the whole south east region in my view.

Schuhart

mfitzy wrote:

Walter Lacey is a muppet in my view; his opinion doesn't count for much in my eyes..He's a PD and theyre a sinking ship as far as i'm concerned really!

But I thought that guy you mentioned from KK Chamber of Commerce there made a fairly valid point.

Essentially what you are saying is ‘I wouldn’t worry too much about those Carlow people. But the idea of locating a Department in Kilkenny is spot on’. I’m not saying you are in league with the devil, but to be honest this response struck me as an illustration of the very problem we’re talking about – people not seeing beyond their county border with the casualty being the prosperity of the region.

All that should be on the cards is upgrading WIT. If it makes sense, from an operational or outreach point of view to have a presence in Kilkenny or anywhere else, it’s another day’s work. Loading it into the agenda like this just communicates that the South East is not a cohesive unit and, unlike Limerick, Galway and Cork, there is no acceptance that Waterford is the regional centre.

road_high

Schuhart wrote:

Essentially what you are saying is ‘I wouldn’t worry too much about those Carlow people. But the idea of locating a Department in Kilkenny is spot on’. I’m not saying you are in league with the devil, but to be honest this response struck me as an illustration of the very problem we’re talking about – people not seeing beyond their county border with the casualty being the prosperity of the region.

All that should be on the cards is upgrading WIT. If it makes sense, from an operational or outreach point of view to have a presence in Kilkenny or anywhere else, it’s another day’s work. Loading it into the agenda like this just communicates that the South East is not a cohesive unit and, unlike Limerick, Galway and Cork, there is no acceptance that Waterford is the regional centre.

No, you've misinterupted my post I reckon.I think Carlow IT is a very useful facility for the region and a valuable asset.
It has really upped it's game in recent years in course and graduate quality and is now being accapted as a popular choice with students and employers.
It would be great in fact to see IT Carlow incorporated into the University plan, perhaps further down the road. It's just the idea of brainless politicians like Lacey and MJ Nolan attacking WIT just for the sake of it, without any real alternative apart from saying 'Carlow IT should get the university' because it's popular locally to say so, really gets on my nerves!

I think the priority must be to get WIT upgraded asap and then talk about presence of outreach in the other towns in the region.

Personally I was raging when I heard Mary Hanafin said WIT was 'doing fine' as an IT i.e.implying the region didnt need a university.Some nerve really...

merlante

mfitzy wrote:

Personally I was raging when I heard Mary Hanafin said WIT was 'doing fine' as an IT i.e.implying the region didnt need a university.Some nerve really...

I was raging that there was no response from Waterford after it. There should have been an outcry, and a debate in the national media for a week -- surely there are some journalists who live in and/or care about the south east? But as usual, tumbleweeds... :mad:

Baby4

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merlante

Baby4 wrote:

This post has been deleted.

I think maybe the campaign itself wants to get all its ducks in a row before the public fight starts. Still, it would be nice if the ordinary joes booed her off the stage. She should have been booed and heckled out of the place and not allowed to say another word.

The current government stance is that Waterford reverts to a town, a city in name only: that is not ****ing good enough!

mad man

My tuppence worth.

The largest political decoy in the history of Waterford and the Southeast region-RADIOTHERAPHY.

The fact of the matter is that Radiotherapy is relatively inexpensive compared with other capital projects such as the M9 motorway or the University. It is an emotional issue especially if a family member has suffered from cancer and a member of my family currently is. That is the reason there is so much energy focused on it. Off the cuff-the estimated cost is around 30 million yo-yo’s.
Cost of motorway 1 BILLION. University, who knows? Certainly worth a billion in social capital. The decoy deflects us away from the more important expensive issues like a motorway, a bypass and a university. If we get these then we can concentrate on getting WRH upgraded to a University Hospital with full radiotherapy facilities.

The second largest political decoy- Martin Cullens misdemeanors.

As for Cullens incompetence and misdemeanors. They are dwarfed by Michéal Martins. Just to remind you. Nursing home charges and PPARS were his responsibility. As for Martin Cullens awarding of a contract to Monica Leech. As Merlante said there would only have been a couple of people in the running and she was one. He was also CLEARED of any wrongdoing. Does anybody remember the Brennan Report? The report commissioned by the government on how to implement structural reform in the health service. Who is Professor Niamh Brennan who compiled the report? She is Michael McDowell (Our Justice ministers) wife. Where was the Ireland On Sunday when this piece of grand Nepotism was going on?

The fact is Martin Cullen was targeted by Frank Connelly of the Ireland on Sunday (who was again rehashing the whole thing in lasts weeks Village magazine). Another fact is that Frank Connelly is a brother of one of the Columbia three who are or were members of Sinn Féin or the IRA. Another fact is that that the IRA was believed to be spying on TD’s in the Republic. Another fact is Waterford is one of the constituencies that Sinn Féin is reckoning on a gain in the next elections. You have to ask yourself. Is it possible that Martin Cullen was being spied on by Provisional Republican elements? The information then transferred to Frank Connelly who gets it published in Ireland on Sunday. Let’s be honest if it was published in An Phoblacht it would have been seen for what it was. Sinn Féin propaganda. Newspaper editors have their own political biases and so do journalists. All this talk about Cullen being an Orphan politician is bollox. Eventually the government closed ranks around Cullen over the affair and subsequently nailed Frank Connelly. Cullen has had two high profile cabinet portfolios and a high profile junior ministry. When Bertie Ahern has a Brainstorm he instructs his cabinet members to propose it. If it is received well by the public then he takes the credit as his idea. If it is not received well then it the cabinet minister’s idea. A perfect example was the proposal to toll the M50 in several places. Martin Cullen proposed it but it was a Bertie idea.

The root cause of Martin Cullens woes are jealousy. This comes from other political elements from around the country perhaps in the West who have seen the Gravy Train diverted a bit to the South East. I believe Sinn Féins ruthlessness is at work here too. The opposition politicians also have their part to play. What is disgusting is our local politicians are jumping on this bandwagon and much of the public falls for it. The fact is Martin Cullen is Waterford’s best chance of political representation and always will be as long as he is in politics. If there is an alternative government you can guarantee that Waterford will not have a cabinet minister. Most likely you will see Phil Hogan or Brendan Howlin representing the South East. If so then we are really ****ed. Phil Hogan is blatantly anti-Waterford and so is Brendan Howlin. Howlin was previously minister for Health and he moved the ambulance centre over to Wexford. The rainbow government also moved the divisional Garda Headquarters from Waterford to Kilkenny. In the last General Election campaign Fine Gaels John Bruton and would be taoiseach stated on record that FG would develop Kilkenny in favour of Waterford.

WHAT WATERFORD NEEDS TO DO

1. When the next election comes vote pragmatically and not because of loyalty to your ‘families’ political flag. If you think David Cullinane is going to win radiotherapy then you need to stop sniffing glue. Investment is only acheived if there is a cabinet minister from the City. The only chance of theis for the foreseeable future-like it or not-Martin Cullen. John Deasy-I don't think so.

2. Try and get the surrounding counties pulling together for a region with Waterford as the gateway and throw away inter county rivalry. However I believe the chances of this are slim.

3. Try and get political cohesion and not vote for parties that have no chance of delivering. This means Sinn Féin and the Workers Party. It also means Fianna Gael and Labour due to Phil Hogan and Brendan Howlin. If we can do this then point 2 will be less important.

3. Get the motorway completed.

4. The University needs to be established.

5. Campaign for radiotherapy but do not throw the baby out with the bath water over it.

6. Market our City and County more. Beaches,City Walls, Parks and Gardens, Entertainment etc..

7. Utilize the river more. Pleasure boat cruises etc. The tall ships festival highlighted the potential.

8. Get rid of the Car Parks on the Quay and turn them into a Park and Promenade.

9. Get rid of Serial Objectors and Groups that try to influence planning in the City. If this isn’t possible then voice displeasure towards them in the local media.

10. Expand our city centre’s retail base.

11. Some 5 star hotels in City Centre.

11. Get over the aversion to high rise buildings. This impedes innovation and the North Quays is an ideal location for this.

12. Collectively as a community we need to rid ourselves of the attitudes in the following http://www.upthedeise.org/waterfordmessageboard/viewtopic.php?t=8737.

13. Raise awareness in Waterford that we are one of the MAJOR cities in Ireland. Among Dublin ,Cork, Limerick and Galway.

14.Speak out and don’t wait for others to do it for you.

15.Vote for local councillors who think strategically and not just primarily on populist NIMBY issues.These are stooges for the objectors.

In a recent interview on Prime Time a Waterford community drugs worker refereed to the other cities as the MAJOR cities. This is the attitude to ourselves we need to change.We ARE a major city and not just when it comes to murder statistics.

Waterford is a small city but a large one in Ireland. Regardless of this it has all the qualities of a significant city. Port and Waterfront etc. This is the reality but not to the naysayer’s who want to turn us into a village. The political reality as I have outlined may be a bitter pill for those who don’t like Fianna Fail. However this is the pill you have to swallow if you want to see Waterford Ascend.

merlante

Excellent post. I 100% agree.

All of the points expressed by mad man are those that would occur to anyone who is at a vantage point from which they can see what's going on in Ireland as a whole. Living outside of Waterford, in a place like in Dublin, rams this vantage down your throat and forces your eyes open.

I firmly believe that if every man, woman and child in Waterford had to spend 1 year living in Dublin -- like a kind of military service! -- people would very quickly adopt the sort of attitude and cop on that we are sorely lacking in Waterford.

To those in Waterford, Cullen is a disgrace, to those who watch the media, lightening doesn't strike randomly. To those in Waterford, you ask, and the government says yes or no, to those who observe politics, it is obvious that you must posture and demand in order to achieve parity. To those in Waterford, FF are robbers, to those who see the bigger picture, FF is (currently) Waterford's only hope -- not because we like them, or because we are FF supporters, but because the alternatives don't bear contemplation.

Fair enough, not everyone in Waterford is so naive: I'd say it's about 80% though. With a good 20% that see so little connection between them and the government that they'd vote in the Apple party if they were promised a free apple.

I'd love to think that we in Waterford could vote Green or Communist or Humanist, or whatever other enlightened party comes along: but the horrible truth is, we don't even have a university or a road to the capital; our city is facing a total collapse in manufacturing in about 5 years time. We are over a barrel, whether we like it or not, and there is no other TD that can possibly save us other than Cullen -- as much as it sounds like I'm playing politics!

It's a pity our other FF TD, Wilkinson is such a complete waste of space. It is also a pity that John Deasy ruined his and Waterford's chance of a cabinet portfolio in a FG led coalition. The man obviously doesn't see what's at stake if he's happy to **** around like that.

I would love if everyone educated themselves on these problems, so that something could be done about them.

mad man

Yes-It is a pity that Deasy made a show of himself with the smoking debacle.His only consolation is that he is young enough to repair his career.

That been said he doesn't inspire my confidence.His remarks about the IDA and there favouritism to Waterford City was more damaging to Waterford.It would have been better served if it was directed at Cork.Tbh I thought it sounded more like Phil Hogan. If that's his atitude to the City then I wouldn't put to much trust in him.

road_high

Trotter wrote:

This is the problem. It keeps us on our toes? It distracts our energies from trying to promote the region. Sure leave Waterford and KK off, they'll fight among themselves while the rest unite and get things done.

Great idea there.. its far from healthy competition.

Sorry, I should have clarified I meant competition in business terms only, like in shops and retail..The shops in KK were prepared to rest on their laurels for years, while Carlow and Waterford developed their retailing and business leaked out of Kilkenny as a result of their arrogance.

Not in terms of essential services and infrustructure like univeristies and healthcare- the only way the region will get these is by putting on a united front in lobbying.This has been the problem in this region in the past with the result we have fallen behind less important places like the West and Mid-West.It is futile competing for thses things.

merlante

mad man wrote:

Yes-It is a pity that Deasy made a show of himself with the smoking debacle.His only consolation is that he is young enough to repair his career.

That been said he doesn't inspire my confidence.His remarks about the IDA and there favouritism to Waterford City was more damaging to Waterford.It would have been better served if it was directed at Cork.Tbh I thought it sounded more like Phil Hogan. If that's his atitude to the City then I wouldn't put to much trust in him.

Indeed, although arguably Deasy blew the chance of a lifetime to become one of the young, dynamic, intelligent FGers leading FG back to the fore. He was even asked by McDowell -- in the beginning -- apparently, if he wanted to join the PDs. He came back to Ireland with great experience as an aide to a republican senator in the US.

And what does he do? Attack McDowell without doing his homework, have constant disputes with Enda Kenny, get fired off the FG front bench for smoking in the Dail bar, lose his position as the man most likely to become an alternative coalition cabinet minister in the south east to the doctor they co-opted for Wexford.

Now he's squaring Dungarvan off against the city. Yes the guy is young -- although still probably about 12 years older than Cullinane, so youth is relative -- but what looked initially like naivety is looking increasingly like stupidity, imho!

Roanmore

merlante wrote:

Excellent post. I 100% agree.

All of the points expressed by mad man are those that would occur to anyone who is at a vantage point from which they can see what's going on in Ireland as a whole. Living outside of Waterford, in a place like in Dublin, rams this vantage down your throat and forces your eyes open.

I firmly believe that if every man, woman and child in Waterford had to spend 1 year living in Dublin -- like a kind of military service! -- people would very quickly adopt the sort of attitude and cop on that we are sorely lacking in Waterford.

To those in Waterford, Cullen is a disgrace, to those who watch the media, lightening doesn't strike randomly. To those in Waterford, you ask, and the government says yes or no, to those who observe politics, it is obvious that you must posture and demand in order to achieve parity. To those in Waterford, FF are robbers, to those who see the bigger picture, FF is (currently) Waterford's only hope -- not because we like them, or because we are FF supporters, but because the alternatives don't bear contemplation.

Fair enough, not everyone in Waterford is so naive: I'd say it's about 80% though. With a good 20% that see so little connection between them and the government that they'd vote in the Apple party if they were promised a free apple.

I'd love to think that we in Waterford could vote Green or Communist or Humanist, or whatever other enlightened party comes along: but the horrible truth is, we don't even have a university or a road to the capital; our city is facing a total collapse in manufacturing in about 5 years time. We are over a barrel, whether we like it or not, and there is no other TD that can possibly save us other than Cullen -- as much as it sounds like I'm playing politics!

It's a pity our other FF TD, Wilkinson is such a complete waste of space. It is also a pity that John Deasy ruined his and Waterford's chance of a cabinet portfolio in a FG led coalition. The man obviously doesn't see what's at stake if he's happy to **** around like that.

I would love if everyone educated themselves on these problems, so that something could be done about them.

Everybody has got an opinion on Martin Cullen and whether right or wrong he along with Noel Dempsey are seen as the weakest two ministers in cabinet. This not my opinion but one held by a lot of people and more importantly by FF backbenchers. If FF do get returned to power, Bertie will breathe a big sigh of relief and it is almost certain he will dump Martin Cullen from cabinet. The perception of him is that he is error prone. So instead of a cabinet minister we will have a lame duck politican who will be sulking because he has lost his Mercedes.

I'm not telling anybody who to vote for but some stuff on here would make the FF website look tame.

merlante

Roanmore wrote:

Everybody has got an opinion on Martin Cullen and whether right or wrong he along with Noel Dempsey are seen as the weakest two ministers in cabinet. This not my opinion but one held by a lot of people and more importantly by FF backbenchers. If FF do get returned to power, Bertie will breathe a big sigh of relief and it is almost certain he will dump Martin Cullen from cabinet. The perception of him is that he is error prone. So instead of a cabinet minister we will have a lame duck politican who will be sulking because he has lost his Mercedes.

I'm not telling anybody who to vote for but some stuff on here would make the FF website look tame.

There is a possibility that he will lose out, although I believe he is seen as mentally stronger than many of the quiet fellas that you never hear about. They are more likely to go. Besides Cullen has had mainly good press for a few years now, albeit nothing dramatic. Also, another minister from the south east would have to be found to replace him. Having no senior minister for a population of 450,000 would be ridiculous, and FF are always very careful about such things.

I love to hear about the other hot-shot politicians we have, if there's something that you know that we don't.

Roanmore

merlante wrote:

There is a possibility that he will lose out, although I believe he is seen as mentally stronger than many of the quiet fellas that you never hear about. They are more likely to go. Besides Cullen has had mainly good press for a few years now, albeit nothing dramatic. Also, another minister from the south east would have to be found to replace him. Having no senior minister for a population of 450,000 would be ridiculous, and FF are always very careful about such things.

I love to hear about the other hot-shot politicians we have, if there's something that you know that we don't.

As I said, I'm not telling anybody how to vote but this blatant electioneering for Martin Cullen is amazing and we still have 12 months to the next election. What's it going to be like in 6 months from now.
I don't support any party and base my vote on what canditates have to say about what the are going to do about the area I live in (Waterford City) and what they are going to do for the country in that order.

merlante

Roanmore wrote:

As I said, I'm not telling anybody how to vote but this blatant electioneering for Martin Cullen is amazing and we still have 12 months to the next election. What's it going to be like in 6 months from now.
I don't support any party and base my vote on what canditates have to say about what the are going to do about the area I live in (Waterford City) and what they are going to do for the country in that order.

Sounds like you misread a few posts there if you think I am a FFer or a Cullen supporter!

I am a 'vote for the guy who stands the best chance of delivering the goods' supporter: i.e. a complete and total mercenary. I would vote for a ****ing snowman if I thought he was good for a cabinet seat, or he was effective in some other important way, i.e. building driveways is not important.

We only have 4 seats! If things weren't so bad, I might be more inclined to have principles and stick with a party, but they're not so there you go.

And well done by the way on supporting no party -- another mercenary like myself -- but it's completely pointless criticising what people are saying and sitting on the fence yourself. If you have any intuition about who would be the best for the city and the country (my exact priorities!) then please let me know. If we can figure out who the best one is, all us mercenaries can throw our weight in behind him or her!

Roanmore

merlante wrote:

Sounds like you misread a few posts there if you think I am a FFer or a Cullen supporter!

I am a 'vote for the guy who stands the best chance of delivering the goods' supporter: i.e. a complete and total mercenary. I would vote for a ****ing snowman if I thought he was good for a cabinet seat, or he was effective in some other important way, i.e. building driveways is not important.

We only have 4 seats! If things weren't so bad, I might be more inclined to have principles and stick with a party, but they're not so there you go.

And well done by the way on supporting no party -- another mercenary like myself -- but it's completely pointless criticising what people are saying and sitting on the fence yourself. If you have any intuition about who would be the best for the city and the country (my exact priorities!) then please let me know. If we can figure out who the best one is, all us mercenaries can throw our weight in behind him or her!

Sorry Merlante, I did mean to say it was not you who suggested we vote for Martin Cullen.

If you asked me before the last election I would have said an Independent candidate would have been the way to go but as we saw most other constituties had the same idea.
Maybe it would be an idea before next years election to send out a questionaire made up of questions sent in by the forum contributors here. It could cover local and national issues (mainly local).
For example, why is the An Post sorting office for Waterford in Cork?
People could then vote for a candidate based on those answers.
If somebody gets elected and does nothing we would have their answer on this site and hold them somewhat accountable.
I don't know if that is the answer but maybe it's a start.
After the summer the electioneering is really going to take off, let's not give them an easy ride.