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Automatic Heating - X10

Dummy

Help !!!

The new house is nearly complete. Wiring has started.

But one of the things I want to do is implement an X10 system for the heating. My aim is that when I am about 1 hour from the house, that from my mobile I can turn on the heating system.

Has anyone any experience of this? Is there any additional wiring required for such a system?

Help !!!!!!!!

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antoinolachtnai

I've not really played much with X10, but I've read all the documentation. You shouldn't need extra wiring for such a system. The system uses the house electrical wiring to carry the signals.

If you want to be futureproofed, you should pull Cat5 to places where you think home control or multimedia access might be important in the future. No need to terminate it, just put it in there and bring all the wires back to a central point in a cupboard or other convenient place.

If you are on the second fix, it is difficult enough to put in extra wires.

Vertical

No additional wiring should be required other than between your landline and the X10 device issuing the ON/OFF command.
Sounds like you need a dial-in controller module and a receiver module.
The dial-in functionality is usually provided by a X10 alarm panel. I've added links to 2 possibilities below.
The electrical switching funtionality could be 1 of several devices. It can be DIN-rail mountable or a plug in module, depending on requirements and the size of the load.

Stick to the European websites when ordering X10 equipment, American sites will sell equipment for 120Vac/60Hz, these devices will not work in Europe.

Two good European websites are WWW.letsautomate.co.uk and www.intellihome.be. I've bought equipment from both.

Dial-in controller possibilities:
http://www.letsautomate.com/10859.cfm?
http://www.intellihome.be/english/home_automation.asp?menu=6 (See the Marmitek SC9000)

Best of luck

fdisk

I have x10 throughout my house and have integrated it with an alarm system that calls me/allows me to call the house, but the one thing I haven't automated is the heating. How can it work if I also want to use a regular timer switch on the system? I want to be able to set the timer as per a normal system, but then if I'm arriving back ealry, to be able to phone the house and turn the heating on. As the x10 units switch on/off the power, how could you implement this without losing the traditional timer control (ie, the x10 unit has turned the heating off, how can the timer turn it on). Sorry to hijack your threwad but I suspect you would have the same isssue...

Vertical

fdisk,

Easiest way would be to wire the X10 receiver and timer in parallel to the boiler, that way if either are ON there is power to the boiler. Of course you would need to remember to switch off the X10 receiver or else the boiler would stay on indefinitely. If you want something more clever it starts to get more complex, such as adding some type of intelligent time clock or programmable controller.

Heres a link to somebodies neat job controlled either locally or via a programmable controller/PC:

http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1652

Viking House

Why couldn't the X10 act the same way as the "boost" button on a regular boiler. Just dial the system, it comes on for 30 mins and reverts back to the clock control after that.

hansov

I see that the marmitek units require a landline. Anybody know of any units you can use with a sim card/mobile? thanks

cormac_byrne

hansov wrote:

Anybody know of any units you can use with a sim card/mobile? thanks

You could use a "GSM Gateway", the X10 unit would see it as a regular landline
see
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270011925771
which just needs SIM card
or a "Siemens Homestation" will do the same if you have an appropriate Siemens Mobile
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290011437987

FrankGrimes

that GSM gateway seems very interesting cormac. Not sure I'm understanding what it does though: basically you can plug a normal analogue landline phone into it and when you dial with the landline phone this thing will basically convert it into a GSM call?

Currently I don't have an active landline in my house, and I have a cheapo alarm dialler I'd like to install (it's a Friedland AlertGard I think - listens and when the alarm goes off it rings the numbers you entered, got it for €35). If I get a GSM Gateway can I stick a Vodafone/O2/Meteor SIM card in it, and connect the phone line socked of the dialler to the gateway and then when the dialler is looking to ring me, it would actually do it over GSM (but as the conversion is upstream from the dialler it works as expected)?

I'm thinking about installing an X10 Homevision system, and if I could use the GSM gateway to both dial into the control panel and have it ring me when needed, it'd be a big, big plus.

cormac_byrne

FrankGrimes wrote:

if I could use the GSM gateway to both dial into the control panel and have it ring me when needed, it'd be a big, big plus.

My understanding is that is exactly what it does, as I was considering one for similar reasons (alternative / backup to voip system). However I never got around to buying one so have no actual experience of them.

FrankGrimes

excellent - sounds great. I'll try look up on them a bit more and will probably get one then.

I'm also using a VOIP system (Blueface) but it will be a while before I have all the points on the phone network terminated, and the added security (i.e. no external cable cuts can stop the dialler if the call goes over GSM) and reliability make this a good option.

cormac_byrne

I'm using blueface too (great company) which used to connect via IBB (really sh1te) that's why I was considering the GSM gateway.

In the end I switched to Magnet (ok) so now I have 2 voip setups.
I have connected them together using a 2 line switch
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=28000973153
so if you ring either line all the phones in the house ring.
also can dial out on either line (#0 prefix to switch to second line)

You could connect your Blueface & gsm gateway to a 2line switch then your alarm could dial out on either or both (put your numbers into it's dial list twice, second time with #0 prefix)

Don't forget a UPS for Blueface ATA / router, broadband modem, line switch, GSM gateway or the whole setup will be useless in a power failure.

P.S. if I was doing a total rewire I would be looking at clipsal c-bus to automate everything (or at least have the potential built in)

FrankGrimes

Sounds good Cormac, will defo look into that. The link didn't work though.

I want to do a bit more research to make sure the GSM gateway does what I hope (and which one to get - seems there are different types, e.g. VOIP GSM Gateway). I did a bit of googling on it but am finding it hard to narrow it down - do you know what's the best search term I should use? I'll also try to figure out the best forum here to get more info on it.

The rewire of the existing house was done last year and its only the extension being done now. I didn't know about automation back then so no automation stuff was installed, but I think the clipsal stuff is expensive so would've been outside my budget anyways. I did install a CAT5e network though which is great, though it doesn't run to light switches and sockets, but it has given plenty of media streaming options.

hansov

FrankGrimes: If you find out more about these GSM gateways and in particular if you find somewhere that sells them new other than e-bay, let us know. This might be the solution to a problem I am trying to solve with an alarm and now x10.

cormac_byrne

search "gsm gateway", "gsm interface"

"siemens homestation", "nokia 22", "nokia 32"

De_man

cormac_byrne wrote:

P.S. if I was doing a total rewire I would be looking at clipsal c-bus to automate everything (or at least have the potential built in)

hi cormac

"Clipsal c-bus" i'm lost now

any possibility you could explain further i'll be commencing first fix electrics (lots of cat5) over the next few months using smarthomes.com for inspiration, having wood pellet boiler, curtains lights etc etc via GSM

any thoughts would be very much appreciated

De_man

cormac

i found the info on the net, getting up to speed now:D

thanks

a pint of plain is yer only man

towbar

Remembered an old thread on this
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054879961&referrerid=59211

I have boards made up that use an old mobile phone and detect dtmf signals and use them to drive a relay. Works out about €50-60 if you have a spare phone.

Also know a guy importing a ready made system from a Hungarian company has 4 inputs two outputs costs abouit €250 but allows sending sms on alarm or other input and can be used to control lights or heationg.

Just connect relay in parrallel with timer switch.

Mellor

hansov wrote:

I see that the marmitek units require a landline. Anybody know of any units you can use with a sim card/mobile? thanks

Wouldn't you have to keep the account topped up with credit every month or the bill fully paid. As normally the phone company would cut you off If you only use it for incoming calls.
i'm only guessing here and know nothing about GSM gateways

cormac_byrne

anyone googling for GSM gateways, also try "Fixed Cellular terminal" or "Premicell"

checkout Burnside
http://www.burnsidetelecom.com/docs/362001.pdf

will send a text if your alarm goes off
also can control equipment.

i.e you don't need an alarm dialer or X10 etc for the heating

also will send you a text if your sim credit is running out.

No idea of cost though

Vertical

This is an Italian manufacturer of heating controls etc
Aquatech in Cork seem to carry some of their range, although probably not specifically this product.

http://www.seitron.it/eng/prodotti/lista.php?sectionid=51&SID