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Rude, Ignorant And No Manners

BLUE-EYE-BOY

My Rant;

I went to the shop yesterday for my lunch with a few work colleagues. I bought myself a Roll and a Drink and went to the checkout. I was first in line and put my things down. The next minute this female Coloured person came up and stood right beside me and I mean she was nearly pushing me to one side. I turned around and looked at her and she stood there. The next thing she tried to barge past me, but i blocked her off, she started shouting at the bloke who was serving me, that she wanted change please, please and said it to me then. I turned around and said excuse me, i just want to pay for these 2 things and to that she said something like, no trouble please and shut up. I handed over my money and as the young bloke was getting my change she barraged up again and started shouting for change. I got very angry and told her in no uncertain terms to get back line and have some manners and a few other words which I won’t repeat. The bloke behind the counter looked a bit shocked, but the lady just walked off. I was standing at the door and she went back over and got her change.

I did not past any racist comments in case you think I did just some harsh words. I'm a very polite bloke and don’t normally lose it like this, but these people just annoy me, its not the first time. They don’t seem to have nay manners what so ever.

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#Smokey#

lol @ DaveMcG

that was an optimistic view btw.

DublinWriter

Sico wrote:

The majority of Nigerian people I have had dealings with were pushy and/or rude.

This is a statement of fact. It is not an opinion (unless you want to argue that 'pushy' or 'rude' are subjective descriptions) nor a generalisation.

Based on several personal experiences along the line of the OP's, I would say the same too.

Now, cue the PC brigade collectively foaming at the mouth and bandying the term 'racist' around like snuff at a wake.

InFront

Nah theres no doubt, Nigerian culture is different, being abrupt is considered more okay 'in general'.

w its only human to find that offensive when youre not used to it. But maybe try to remember that its just a culture difference. Nobody wants to upset you, just relax. Irish people have many social habits and customs others find hard to accept, everyone should just get on with it.

You have to see a difference between people just being rude, and people who are just going about their daily business as they have always done, only to have some <insert job title> fly off the handle for no visible reason.

#Smokey#

PC is actually more damaging to ethnic minority's and other people of different lifestyle as it distinguishes them as other than ordinary people.

InFront

I dont know, PC can be a good safety valve for when things get out of hand. But often it isthrown around too much.

If people weren't so sensitive there'd be no racism and no PCness to begin with. But we are all only human

Wertz

Alright so if this forwardness, pushiness and sometimes just general rudeness is the way of things in various African cultures, is it okay for the indigenous populace of this country to throw that right back at them in social situations? Or would that be considered racist? IMO if they can give it they can take it....but in my experience if you're in any way offhand with this group of people they're the first to turn around and imply that you're only being rude/forward/pushy to them because they're black.

BTW sort of off topic, but I'll say this for foreign antionals of all cultures/races...when you deal with them behind a shop counter or other service places, they have one hell of a lot better manners than the Irish doing the same job. I'm sick to death of being treated as an inconvenience to their workday by "young wans" when I'm handing over exorbitant sums for my food/drink/wahtever. I have yet to come acrossa foreigner that didn't at least acknowledge my presence and utter some semblance of pleasantry during the transaction.

#Smokey#

Wertz wrote:

Alright so if this forwardness, pushiness and sometimes just general rudeness is the way of things in various African cultures, is it okay for the indigenous populace of this country to throw that right back at them in social situations? Or would that be considered racist? IMO if they can give it they can take it....but in my experience if you're in any way offhand with this group of people they're the first to turn around and imply that you're only being rude/forward/pushy to them because they're black.

BTW sort of off topic, but I'll say this for foreign antionals of all cultures/races...when you deal with them behind a shop counter or other service places, they have one hell of a lot better manners than the Irish doing the same job. I'm sick to death of being treated as an inconvenience to their workday by "young wans" when I'm handing over exorbitant sums for my food/drink/wahtever. I have yet to come acrossa foreigner that didn't at least acknowledge my presence and utter some semblance of pleasantry during the transaction.

Thats a good point.Would it be racist if we reacted the same way towards them?

InFront

Wertz wrote:

Alright so if this forwardness, pushiness and sometimes just general rudeness is the way of things in various African cultures, is it okay for the indigenous populace of this country to throw that right back at them in social situations? Or would that be considered racist? IMO if they can give it they can take it....

Im not talking about pushing and shoving, no doubt that would be considered rude anywhere. Im just talking about general abruptness. Many Nigerians Ive met (though not yet all of them:) ) have often had one thing in common and that was volume. They can be so loud!, not arrogantly, they just laugh and speak with a lot of animation. Whereas most Irish will be more silent and subdued in group situations.

Aggressiveness is not okay, and its not something that comes with nationality, it is personal. And if you have that "eye for an eye" attitude about aggressive people, you'll soon end up with a black one (eye, that is:D )

Terry

Sico wrote:

That's absolutely fair enough.

But how about this:

The majority of Nigerian people I have had dealings with were pushy and/or rude.

This is a statement of fact. It is not an opinion (unless you want to argue that 'pushy' or 'rude' are subjective descriptions) nor a generalisation. And I have a feeling that this is accurate of most people's experiences with Nigerians in this country, and is probably what julep was trying to say, he/she just phrased it badly.

Let's not go so overboard on the political correctness that we ignore plain facts.

</controversy>

(Edit: by posting this, I'm not saying that the original poster is any less of a moron, but I'd like to promote a bit of balance)

yes, that is what i was trying to say. (he, for the record)
<insert excuse about being hungover here>

10 years ago the only foreign people here were spanish students, american tourists and some british people.
all of a sudden we are bombarded with immigrants, to the point that 10% of the population now consists of foreign nationals. it's going to take some getting used to.

The Bollox

what is PC? personal comments?

Wertz

I wasn't talking about physical pushing and shoving either, I meant in terms of social interaction.
I'm not talking about being aggressive, I'm talking about mirroring their attitudes...
If that's the only way they understand then treat them like that. But since this is in fact a change in an Irish person's behaviour toward a foreigner, it would be automatically classed as a racist attitude.
Just seems to me that this current society has double standards out the wazoo when it comes to race issues, the mainstay seeming to come down to "If you're white, you're automatically in the wrong"...

InFront

Marts wrote:

what is PC? personal comments?

No it means pink cucumber.

Some people also take it to mean politically correct, but not many.

The Bollox

there's no need to be a cock about it! I was just asking

herbieflowers

InFront wrote:

No it means pink cucumber.

Some people also take it to mean politically correct, but not many.

that wasn't very PC of you...

InFront

Wertz wrote:

If that's the only way they understand then treat them like that.

Who said "they" dont understand anything else. Im not sure what you would do 'their way', so I cant say if it would be racist. I find most foreign nationals, in general, to be more interactive and easy to chat to than most ethnically Irish people, so Im not sure what your complaint on bad social interaction is about. You said yourself, many foreign nationals working in shops tend to be more pleasent. Not that thats limited to nationalities, kind people and rude people exist everywhere, even if they dont know it themselves

If you're white, you're automatically in the wrong"..

You seem to be the one pushing this suggestion, nobody has said that, and I personally disagree.

[Deleted User]

BLUE-EYE-BOY wrote:

Im no racist far from it actually.When I was in secondary school my best matewas "Black"

I've read about that whole 'I'm not racist/homophobic/anti-semite, one of my friends is black/gay/Jewish' routine, but rarely do I see it applied so rigidly.

Pherekydes

julep wrote:

nigerians are, by and large, rude and obnoxious.

The only Nigerians I met are unfailingly polite.

In fact, I've yet to meet a rude immigrant. But I'm sure they'll learn...

Dudess

Why the term coloured is offensive:

1. Why aren't white people referred to as coloured? White is also a colour.

2. "Coloured" implies that white skin is pure and unspoiled and dark skin would be the same except someone came along and coloured it in with a paintbrush, thus spoiling it. That's why the term coloured is offensive. It is a term that emerges from white skin being the yardstick by which everything else is measured. Just like the west is the yardstick by which other cultures are measured, just like the English language is the yardstick by which other languages are measured.

As for the original post, what the OP and a number of others are saying is that there is a larger number of aggressive, rude, unpleasant people among Africans than there are among other groups (although Africa is one hell of a big place). Maybe the posters are right. If this is what they have observed, it's what they have observed. It could be cultural. It could also be some sort of reactionary mechanism - constantly being on guard for racist attack because of all the **** they have put up with through the ages.

BLUE-EYE-BOY

Back to the thread I posted this morning. The fact she was Black (I was told that the frase coloured was racist comment) did not make a difference to the way I reacted towards her. The fact she was dam right Ignorant and rude was. I have come across all sorts of nationality's that are rude and ignorant, even Irish in everyday life. I noticed as soon as I said the word coloured there was quite a rapid response to my thread which just goes to show how quickly people accuse you of being racist. I wonder if i would have got the same response if I said she was white

I doubt it.

I will admit that I do find all blacks to very rude and ignorant + Chinese people. I put that down to there culture and not there skin type. I also find most Irish people to be quite rude and snobbish as well, does that also make me a racist.

WhiteWashMan was quick to call me a racist, because he is black and was offended by comments. I wonder if he has accused anyone else here of being a racist? Being a Mod as well, I thought he could have chosen his words a bit more wisely, maybe next time he won’t be so quick to comment. I have read plenty of comments and have noticed people have called him a BULLY, which after his comments directed towards me I would have to agree.

I've only being a member for a short while, but it seems to me that Mod's get away with comments that others would be banned for, which I don’t agree with. I would say that most Mod's give good advice and are always post negative comments, but i would expect them to be little wiser when choosing there words or when replying back to threads after all they are there to keep the peace and etc.

Terry

regarding your comments about mods, someone will inevitably point this out to you, so i'll just do it now. http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=82
you may want to check your spelling before you post there though.

it's not racist to point out that someone who was being an asshole also happened to be black.
the opposite would happen if one of us was acting like a prick in some african country.

"there was a white guy in the shop earlier and he was a wanker". you get the idea.

InFront

Dudess wrote:

Why the term coloured is offensive:

1. Why aren't white people referred to as coloured? White is also a colour.

2. "Coloured" implies that white skin is pure and unspoiled and dark skin would be the same except someone came along and coloured it in with a paintbrush, thus spoiling it. That's why the term coloured is offensive. It is a term that emerges from white skin being the yardstick by which everything else is measured. Just like the west is the yardstick by which other cultures are measured, just like the English language is the yardstick by which other languages are measured.

Im going to have to remember that one:D

... if you think coloured people are so wrapped up in cotton wool that this is offensive to us then I can only assume (excuse me if you are yourself not a Caucasian) that you have no real concept of the real-life racism and bigotry that goes on in this country. My mind is boggled, honestly.

Theres no need to be so sensitive and philosophical over what is a common, everyday, mere description of someones skin. Saying it gives whites an unfair dominance? Are you equally opposed to the term non-white? non-Asian? Unemployed? Non-Muslim?

How about we ban all adjectives altogether, then we'd all be the same, equals. Wouldnt that be fantastic.:rolleyes: I cant believe this is even an argument.

L31mr0d

julep wrote:

that's all it is. different cultures.
nigerians are, by and large, rude and obnoxious. chinese people are pleasant...

... and the Irish are drunks and bigots, the english are snobs and inbread, the americans are fat and loud, the eastern block are violent, the french are just awful, the germans are up their own arse and the middle east is going to bomb us all to hell... yeah yeah yeah...

We can bandy around cultural brandings all day long and we'd still not of reached a conclusion. I wonder what the Americans first thought of us Irish when boatload after boatload of uneducated, drunkards poured into their cities looking for handouts.

BTW, to the OP, if the person happened to be a beautiful blonde model from sweden, and had been bumping into you with her large breasts to get you out of the way do you think you would of acted as you did? I've seen many a person treat a foreign person with contempt for taking their time at a counter, yet a nice hot woman, scantily clad will take the same amount of time and the guy behind the counter will gladly let her take all the time she wants, and will usually give her something for free or let her off with something. Without thought, the colour of the persons skin and their nationality and accent had already decided for you how you where going to react to that situation.

Wertz

InFront wrote:

Who said "they" dont understand anything else. Im not sure what you would do 'their way', so I cant say if it would be racist.

Notice the word "If" at the start of the sentence; small word, big meaning.
As for "their way", the OP says he finds a lot of Africans to be forward, abrubt, rude etc and some subsequent posters agreed with him...other people have mentioned that this is simply a fact of the culture in the African nations...I said that if you were to treat them in kind it should be an understandable response, but that it would more likely than not, be seen as being a racist one.
Oh and please don't single out my terms for another racial group by hanging quotation marks around them...this in itself seems to imply me being racist by considering them as a group for the purposes of my post.

InFront wrote:

I find most foreign nationals, in general, to be more interactive and easy to chat to than most ethnically Irish people, so Im not sure what your complaint on bad social interaction is about. You said yourself, many foreign nationals working in shops tend to be more pleasent. Not that thats limited to nationalities, kind people and rude people exist everywhere, even if they dont know it themselves

Where did I complain about bad social interaction? Reading comprehension isn't your strong point. The OP made the point on this...I suggested a possible solution and queried whether such a scenario would mark him (the OP) out as being racist if he decided to follow through with it.

I'm well aware that rudeness is not confined to one or other ethnic group.

InFront wrote:

You seem to be the one pushing this suggestion, nobody has said that, and I personally disagree.

:rolleyes:
It's the PC brigade that are pushing this suggestion...the OP posts some possibly valid points and for the simple fact that he uses some non-PC terms and seems to have an axe to grind with foreign nationals, he's automatically in the wrong.
This isn't just a trait of these forums but of our society in general.

Would you agree with the fact that other races are equally as capable of being racist as the caucasian race? Why then is it only the caucasian race that gets so lambasted for being that way?

BLUE-EYE-BOY

Julep;
I dont care for my spelling mistakes when posting on boards, you understood my thread so whats the problem?

[QUOTE=L31mr0d BTW, to the OP, if the person happened to be a beautiful blonde model from sweden, and had been bumping into you with her large breasts to get you out of the way do you think you would of acted as you did? I've seen many a person treat a foreign person with contempt for taking their time at a counter, yet a nice hot woman, scantily clad will take the same amount of time and the guy behind the counter will gladly let her take all the time she wants, and will usually give her something for free or let her off with something. Without thought, the colour of the persons skin and their nationality and accent had already decided for you how you where going to react to that situation.[/QUOTE]

I would react exactly the same way, unless she said excuse me would you mind if skiped you as i need to get change for **********. The fact is this person had no manners and did'nt even ask if she could skip me so she could get some change.

So had your the answer to your question is NO

Cake Fiend

Slow coach wrote:

The only Nigerians I met are unfailingly polite.

In fact, I've yet to meet a rude immigrant. But I'm sure they'll learn...

Ha, you've gone and made a brand new minority group all by yourself now: people who have met only polite Nigerians

BLUE-EYE-BOY wrote:

The fact she was Black (I was told that the frase coloured was racist comment) did not make a difference to the way I reacted towards her

Then why did you mention it?

BLUE-EYE-BOY wrote:

WhiteWashMan was quick to call me a racist, because he is black and was offended by comments

<--- We need a bigger smilie, this made me laugh out loud!

FlutterinBantam

InFront wrote:

.

This is very true. I have a Bengali friend/ acquanitance who speaks quite passionately and tends to move his hands a lot. His grammar is quite bad, and and this is often perceived as arrogance or speaking violently, even when he is praising or joking about someone. We are all very prone to misunderstandings due to our different social conditionings imo

Should be at home in Dublin then!

Terry

L31mr0d wrote:

... and the Irish are drunks and bigots, the english are snobs and inbread, the americans are fat and loud, the eastern block are violent, the french are just awful, the germans are up their own arse and the middle east is going to bomb us all to hell... yeah yeah yeah...

We can bandy around cultural brandings all day long and we'd still not of reached a conclusion. I wonder what the Americans first thought of us Irish when boatload after boatload of uneducated, drunkards poured into their cities looking for handouts.

BTW, to the OP, if the person happened to be a beautiful blonde model from sweden, and had been bumping into you with her large breasts to get you out of the way do you think you would of acted as you did? I've seen many a person treat a foreign person with contempt for taking their time at a counter, yet a nice hot woman, scantily clad will take the same amount of time and the guy behind the counter will gladly let her take all the time she wants, and will usually give her something for free or let her off with something. Without thought, the colour of the persons skin and their nationality and accent had already decided for you how you where going to react to that situation.

these have been my experiences with these specific nationals.
am i not allowed to point out negative experiences with other people?
the comment i made about chinese people was complimentary, yet you go and throw around some negative stereotypes. why?

BLUE-EYE-BOY wrote:

I dont care for my spelling mistakes when posting on boards, you understood my thread so whats the problem?

that was some friendly advice. that's all.

BLUE-EYE-BOY

julep wrote:

these have been my experiences with these specific nationals.
am i not allowed to point out negative experiences with other people?

So you mean to say that you gone out of your way to help blonde damsel in distress at the checkout so you can get your 5min of thrill for the day:rolleyes: you would'nt accuse them of being rude for it? that says it all to me;)

InFront

L31mr0d wrote:

I've seen many a person treat a foreign person with contempt for taking their time at a counter, yet a nice hot woman, scantily clad will take the same amount of time and the guy behind the counter will gladly let her take all the time she wants, and will usually give her something for free.

Er... non white foreigners can be goodlooking too, no? I know youre only maing a point, nothing racist about it

Originally posted by wertz
Where did I complain about bad social interaction?

here:

Originally posted by Wertz:I wasn't talking about physical pushing and shoving either, I meant in terms of social interaction

Wertz:
Would you agree with the fact that other races are equally as capable of being racist as the caucasian race? Why then is it only the caucasian race that gets so lambasted for being that way?

Of course. You seem to think everyone is anti-white here, which would be odd, presuming most of you are undoubtedly white. Or should I say non-coloured

I dont know.

I would say that racism from whites is often seen as more unacceptable because of historical events. If Algeria had invaded France, or if India had colonised Britain, then the shoe would be on the other foot. But anyways, no, it doesnt take a white person to be racist or bigotted. There are idiots everywhere.

If you think its only whites who get 'lambasted' (criticised??) then youre incorrect. Within thnic groups, there is a whole sub-culture of racism towards sister ethnicities. I'll give you the example with Asians: many Pakistanis here (and everywhere) hate Bengalis, and vice versa. This is racism, and should be criticised. If you see racism from caucasians being criticised more its just because its the one that happens more often numerically. No one kind of racism is above another.

Terry

blue-eye-boy, why have you quoted me there?
it doesn't make any sense.