nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Carnage On Irish Roads. What Can Be Done?

gimmick

I doubt it is only me who gets quite upset watching the news on a daily basis, to see and hear of more lives being lost needlessly on the roads. Yesterday alone was it 7 deaths. Families throughout the country are in unbelievable horror today, 2 especially who lost 2 kids each.

Now Im not going to preach and say what should be done, but I am certainly going to give an opinion as to what I think could be done, and perhaps it will help. Road deaths will never be wiped out completely, but surely something must be done.

Firstly, anyone who has not applied for the their driving test as of , say, 1st september, should have to do a drivers ed programme similar to that in the US. We are not being thought how to drive as it is, and how reversing around a corner in a housing estate in a test stes one up for the real world I will never know.

Provisional drivers should not be allowed drive on their own under any circumstances.

A 1st provisional license should not be issued to someone unless they actually drive ie many use their driving license as ID when 18, dont drive. They then start driving at 21, and are already on 2nd provisional, where it is ok to drive on your own.

Motor bikes have graded levels at which you can drive. The same should apply for cars. If i were in charge i would make sure that if you do not have a full licence, you CANNOT drive a car ober 1.1cc. Also, if you are under 21, full license or not, you cannot drive a car over 1.1cc. 21-25 not allowed over 1.6cc and must have a full license. 25+ you can drive whatever as long as you are fully licensed. I realsie then not everyone will be able to drive their folks car when they are 18, but sorry, screw them. Too many of these accidents are happening in cars which people cannot handle, powerful engines which a learner cannot handle.

Now i know the non drivers and learner drivers will be up in arms about this, and say thats all well and good for those with full licenses already. Perhaps its unonstitutional, Ill leave that to the legal eagles among us. Fact is, that a line has to be drawn somewhere, revise, and start again. It is for the good of us all. I would even endorse that fully licensed drivers have to do some sort of test on renewal on their licenses every 5-10 years whatever it is.

Thoughts?

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Vegeta

we can have all the rules and laws we wnat but until we change two things the deaths will continue

1. Enforce the fcuking law for christs sake. I drive 25miles of National routeway twice a day for the last year and I haven't seen a cop once, this is complete bullsh1t. makes me feel like a fool for obeying the speed limit when everyone is overtaking me.

2. Attitude change, we need to educate early, drivers ed in secondary school and encourage people to report dangerous driving.

Vegeta

cornbb wrote:

Example: a spoiler fitted to a car which was not designed to have one will push the rear end of the car down when driving at speed, thereby reducing the effectiveness of the front brakes. The front brakes are far more important, which is why they are usually disc brakes as opposed to drum brakes.

the efect on your standard car would be almost nil, if the brakes are pressed hard the car will lurch forward puttin all the weight back on the front of the car

BaZmO*

McDowell has come out today and passed the buck by putting the blame sqaurely at the feet of the drivers. While I think it is fair to blame the wreckless drivers to a certain extent, it is however, totally misguided to not own up to the fact that law enforcement (or the lack thereof) has a big part to play in the "carnage" that we are witnessing on our roads on a weekly basis.

It seems that a big factor in the deaths on the roads is Drink Driving and Speeding. And whats the number one factor at preventing these? A complete clampdown and the resulting fear of punishment that comes with that.

We all seen how the the introduction of Penalty Points reduced the mortality rates on our roads making people think twice about speeding. And at Christmas there's always a concerted effort to increase the amount of check points, but as per usual these efforts to change people's behaviours fail when they aren't maintained at a regular basis or in the case of Penalty Points can't be followed up with punitive action.

McDowell blames the driver, but the Government needs to share some of the blame too. If a person kills someone, or at least, has the potential to kill someone it is up to the government to enforce the laws that are in place to punish these people or even better, to prevent the problem from occurring in the first place.

gimmick

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

How many of these road deaths were caused by provisional drivers? None.

You are totally missing the point. Not to mention, you or I do not know how many were caused by provisional drivers.

b3t4 wrote:

Did you actually get my point at all?? I'll spell it out.

I'm sick to sh-it of everyone going after learner drivers. There are SOOO many issues around this whole area and it seems if we fix just one part of this whole nightmare then everything will be fine, like seriously.

I am a learner driver. I passed the theory test. I got 10 lessons from a driving instructor. I don't ever drive on my own.

I believe this thread has been started out as an effort to find a scapegoat, a person or group or organisation, that someone can point their finger at this is not going to help things.

I agree with everything Hobbes has said.

A.

I didnt get your point because you didnt make one. Now, i have obviously touched a nerve. I am not looking for a scapegoat, I am looking for a solution to a major problem which affects us all at some point or another. What i am trying to say, if I havenmt made it cear enough already is that the whole driving structure in ireland is wrong. Just because I have learned to look in my mirrors at the right times doesnt make me a better driver than you, but the fact I have a full license suggests that I am. People are not being thought how to drive properly in this country, and that needs changing. Now, it would be far too hard to nullify all current full licences out there, so thats why I have suggested that a line be drawn and start again.

Hobbes wrote:

In the UK even after you pass your test you are still required to wear R plates and not allowed on the motorway.

Whats an R plate for?

ambro25

cornbb wrote:

Example: a spoiler fitted to a car which was not designed to have one will push the rear end of the car down when driving at speed, thereby reducing the effectiveness of the front brakes.

Not wanting to be pedant here, but you do realise that you'd have to be driving at some speed already (i.e. over 90 mph / 140 kph or more) for the spoiler to have any effect on the front brakes, don't you? (never mind any effect on road-holding also)

Don't forget about a car's front/back weight apportioning - front brakes are indeed usually 'stronger' (via discs instead of drums), but the front of any car is usually much heavier than the back also

daveg

Another point. Why isn't every local village guard outside the pubs in the country every night of the weekend? Am I the only one who notices that there are 100 cars parked outside the pub by 12am and there are 3 cars left at 2am. Are the all drinking fúcking coke? This country's attitude to drink driving is a fecking disgrace and something, as a country, we should be very ashamed of.

cornbb

ambro25 wrote:

Not wanting to be pedant here, but you do realise that you'd have to be driving at some speed already (i.e. over 90 mph / 140 kph or more) for the spoiler to have any effect on the front brakes, don't you? (never mind any effect on road-holding also)

Don't forget about a car's front/back weight apportioning - front brakes are indeed usually 'stronger' (via discs instead of drums), but the front of any car is usually much heavier than the back also

Fair enough, maybe I've been misinformed. Didn't mean to try to lay the blame at the feet of car modders, many of whom I'm sure are responsible drivers, but I'm sure most of you will agree that the boy racer culture isn't exactly helping the road safety problem.

magpie

where's the mention of the poor road conditions?

Exactly. The Government never mentions these as this would involve actually taking some responsibility for what's going on. Instead they repeat the mantra of 'speed kills', passing the buck onto individual drivers. And amazingly, it seems to have worked judging by the number of people here who genuinely seem to believe that its the fault of drivers.

If the Government cared even remotely about this we would be seeing a complete overhaul of our roads. Its much cheaper, and more convenient, to pass the buck.

padi89

cornbb wrote:

Fair enough, maybe I've been misinformed. Didn't mean to try to lay the blame at the feet of car modders, many of whom I'm sure are responsible drivers, but I'm sure most of you will agree that the boy racer culture isn't exactly helping the road safety problem.

To be honest i used to have this attitude and i was wrong.I have seen alot more Reps and Buisness men in powerfull cars doing way more dangerous driving than boyracers.I used to deliver cars for a rental company all over the country and dangerous driving is everywhere not just to one group of people.

Driving with caution and care is the only way,the government can do as much as they want but at the end of the day its the individual that gets into the car and controls it.

FillSpectre

magpie wrote:

Exactly. The Government never mentions these as this would involve actually taking some responsibility for what's going on. Instead they repeat the mantra of 'speed kills', passing the buck onto individual drivers. And amazingly, it seems to have worked judging by the number of people here who genuinely seem to believe that its the fault of drivers.

My understanding is that what ever figures there are about road deaths very few if any have the road conditions as a cause. Considering what people generally see is drivers acting baddly it makes sense people blame them and not the road conditions. I don't think people beleive the government they beleive their eyes hence most people think a lack of enforcement is the 2nd biggest problem

HelterSkelter

Just out in the car at lunch time I noticed new fancy bus lanes and cycle tracks with red road surface on the Crumlin Road. All the junctions off the road have had fancy pavement fitted, new traffic islands, etc. A lot of traffic lights around have been replaced with new slicker looking ones. If the Government can spend so much money making our city roads look nice and attractive why can't they spend the money improving the dangeous country roads where the majority of accidents happen? Road Safety is just not at the top of their list, or anywhere near the top. Why do you think Eddie Shaw resigned?

Femelade

two people have died in road accidents near me in the last two weeks, 1 of them a guy in his 20's the other a 10 month old boy. The road that they crashed on is a road that was redone very recently, it is a good wide road. Now, even though i do feel that alot of roads are in a bad state and that the government ned to sort these roads out, its not always the case. Some people just want to get where they are going as quickly as possible and they dont care at what speed they are driving at. They think they are well capable to drive at great sppeds, but no matter how good a driver you are, there are other people on the road that are not so good.

padi89

People on bicycles need to cop the fvck on too.I used a bike for years for getting in and out to work.I stopped when a light was red,wore a high visiblity jacket and a helmet and i was like a christmas tree at night with lights.

Now im driving i see fvck all people with lights on their bikes and in Galway city i rarely see people on bicycles obeying the traffic lights.

HelterSkelter

FillSpectre wrote:

My understanding is that what ever figures there are about road deaths very few if any have the road conditions as a cause. Considering what people generally see is drivers acting baddly it makes sense people blame them and not the road conditions. I don't think people beleive the government they beleive their eyes hence most people think a lack of enforcement is the 2nd biggest problem

This is from the NRA Road Collision Facts 2004 report:

The contributory factors listed by members of An Garda Siochana on collision report forms changed little from 2003 (see Table 17 on page 20). Driver error accounted for 88 per cent of all contributory factors identified, while the next most-listed factor, pedestrian error, accounted for 8 per cent. Road Factors accounted for 2 per cent of all listed contributory factors, while the figures for vehicle and environmental factors were 0.2 and 1.3 per cent respectively.

In two vehicle only fatal collisions - see Figure 9 - the most frequently cited contributory factor is ‘went to the wrong side of the road’ (40%), followed in turn by ‘other action’ (26 per cent), ‘exceeded safe speed limit’ (13 per cent), ‘drove through stop / yield’ (12 per cent), ‘improper overtaking’ (9 per cent) and ‘drove through traffic signal’ (1 per cent).

dellas1979

I am from the country side and have been living there and been driving those nasty, horrible windy, pothole-ridden roads all my life.

I actually had quite a long message written before I decided to write this (smaller) one.

Drivers have absolutely no consideration for other drivers on the road. I think that it is as simple as that.

Who is in the wrong here? A 25 year old man over taking, on a bend, a 40 year old man doing 30 KPH? Neither have consideration for the other.

FillSpectre

padi89 wrote:

People on bicycles need to cop the fvck on too.I used a bike for years for getting in and out to work.I stopped when a light was red,wore a high visiblity jacket and a helmet and i was like a christmas tree at night with lights.

Now im driving i see fvck all people with lights on their bikes and in Galway city i rarely see people on bicycles obeying the traffic lights.

Lets be realistic here bycycles are cretainly not the casue of the majority of road deaths. In fact the more stupid their behaviour the more likely they are of getting killed themselves.

How a cyclists wearing a helmets is going to suddenly reduce the road deaths really doesn't make sense.

Late night driving is certainly a factor and from what I hear drink driving in the rural areas is tolerated by most. Yet aren't most of the death in rural areas? Closing pubs in rural areas would have a bigger effect than cycle helmets IMHO

tonyboy247

A driving licence is a licence to kill… you don’t find many countries where learner drivers are swanning around. I was told that a learner can only drive when accompanied by a qualified driver …yeah right.! I was told that in the mid 70’s people were actually given driving licences no test whatsoever… that makes sense! As for penalty points speeding etc there are no cops policing the place, let alone the roads.

So what We Got ..
1) People with licences who have passed no test…..All legal
2) People driving around pending examination… All legal
3) Penalty point system… No Traffic Police

Makes you wonder why insurance is so high!! But then did you know most of the Irish car insurance money goes straight to the UK insurance houses… Now it all makes sense. Nobody making any money = No political will to change.

Triangle

Hobbes wrote:

Bull****. How do you know this? Yes there are idiots on the road that don't know how to drive a car for the first time, but the majority of assholes on the road that have nearly killed me or someone else are all driving '06-'05 reg cars, or having been driving for some time.

At least the recent provisionals actually have to take an exam before they are even allowed behind the wheel of a car.

Provisionals are getting dumped on when they are not nearly part of the overall problem.

First up, quite a number of people on the road with full licenses never even sat a driving test. The government gave them an amnesty because so many were driving without a license.

Provisionals for what people are demanding you may as well sell your car if you are on a provisional, because there is no way you are going to get to use it.

Secondly provisional license holders are getting reamed in regards to insurance, and the waiting time of over a year on average for an exam insures they are crippled money wise.

If they want to lower the number of deaths.

1. Enforce all provisonal drivers to take a minimum of 10 lessons from a qualified driver instructor after passing thier theory test. Subsidise this from the government if you have to.

2. Clear the backlog. Screw the whining instructors thinking they will be hard done by, they fuking everything up for everyone. Fire them if you have to (seeing as they recently got money incentive earlier this year and still sitting on thier asses).

3. Once the backlog is clear and a driving test can be guaranteed within a month THEN ENFORCE PROVISIONAL LAWS. Take the provisionals off the streets.

4. GARDI ENFORCE ROAD RULES. In fairness now I have seen them a lot stopping people but they should be able to stop you for random breath checks, etc.

5. ZERO TOLERANCE on drink driving. The level should be lowered to a point where it is not possible to drink and drive. I don't mean 0, but a level that isn't likely to get you nabbed the following day if you are no longer drunk.

6. SLOW DOWN. Nearly all the muppets I have seen nearly killing someone have been speeding or been trying to get ahead (hard shoulder, overtaking on the left ON A ROUNDABOUT). Most of the roads have a set speed that allows you to maintain a constant speed. For example the N32. The speed limit there is 60kph, however most people just go as fast as possible (80-120) on it. Yet if you go at 60kph unless the person is using the bus lane on that road you will meet up with them at the traffic lights at then 19 times out of 20.

7. Report muppets. Use the traffic watch number if there is someone on the road that looks like they may crash.

8. Proper cameras on the motorways.

9. Have drivers retake the driving tests 5 or 10 years after the last test.

Whoooaaaa Hobbes.

it is not bull.
1) I don't let my children walk up the stairs by them selves until I have taught them.
2) I wouldn't let someone work on a server until they passed an exam.
3) I wouldn't let someone fly an airplane until they passed an exam
4) I wouldn't let someone become a dontor unless they passed an exam

Exams are there to show an adequate knowledge of a subject prior to someone being called qualifed.

What i was not saying is - all accidents are caused by Provisional drivers
what i was not saying is - the government have provided enough tester to get rid of the backlog
what i was not saying is - all provisional drivers are dangerous

What i was saying is that letting someone on the road who has not been tested is asking for trouble.

gimmick

dellas1979 wrote:

Drivers have absolutely no consideration for other drivers on the road. I think that it is as simple as that.

Excellent point, and one which I can relate to big time. last year, in February, i was driving up to port Laoise with my girldfrind on a friday evening, about 6.30 - 7pm. It was pitch black, and lashing rain. I was at the front of my side of traffic. We were just after Durrow if I remember correctly, traveling from Cork. the road had a gentle bend which goes on for about 500 metres. so I was driving along, and looked up to see another car coming toards me on my side of the road, overtaking a line of traffic. I had to fúcking double take before i swerved, and narrowly avoided going into the ditch. Now had we collided, we were dead, no doubts about it. I was driving a citroen saxo, he was driving a gold volvo or BMW, cant remember which. It all happened so quickly, I never got his plate. Prick.

HelterSkelter

Triangle wrote:

...
2) I wouldn't let someone work on a server until they passed an exam.

Yeah, but would you let them reinstall Windowz on your server if they had only passed a basic MS Word exam? Cos that what the Irish driving test really represents.

dochasach

Hobbes wrote:

Provisionals are getting dumped on when they are not nearly part of the overall problem.

Yes the govt periodically dances around the part of the problem it is responsible for and shift the entire blame from themselves alternately onto joy riders, boy racers, provisional drivers, non-irish and again provisional drivers.

If anyone has statistics indicating that those who pass our crap-shoot driving exam are less likely to crash than someone who spends the same amount of time on the road and yet has not passed, I'd like to see them. They don't exist, in fact men are more likely to pass the road test than women but men are more likely to crash.

Hobbes wrote:

Secondly provisional license holders are getting reamed in regards to insurance, and the waiting time of over a year on average for an exam insures they are crippled money wise.

Not only are provisonal drivers screwed by the insurance industry and instructor/tester cartels, they are also restricted to secondary roads which are 11 times more dangerous than motorways Lets not make it worse by restricting Ls to 0.7 Liter tin boxes. Ireland's fixation on engine size as a primary safety issue is more blame-shifting. I drove a car with a 7.0 liter engine when I was in my 20s, and now after a couple of hundred thousand miles, I haven't yet been involved in a crash. (yeah I'm touching wood, because unlike most of the hot shot drivers out there, I realize that I'm not a perfect driver, NO ONE IS!)

Hobbes wrote:

If they want to lower the number of deaths.

1. Enforce all provisonal drivers to take a minimum of 10 lessons from a qualified driver instructor after passing thier theory test. Subsidise this from the government if you have to.

First you have to find qualified instructors. My first instructor drove to pick me up while chatting on her mobile, she chatted on her mobile during all of the lessons and taught me things which were clearly wrong (according to the books) and which helped me fail my first road test. Yesterday my wife saw the driver of a car from a driving instruction company endangering others through his terrible driving. The driver was alone and presumably was the INSTRUCTOR!

2. Clear the backlog. Screw the whining instructors thinking they will be hard done by... Fire them if you have to

Yes. I think this could be done quickly by automating the testing procedure. Use a DGPS+accelerometer+webcam device to record driving for a time. If you still insist on human testers, use the DGPS device to weed out the least likely to pass. The current system where the driver is evaluated for 30 minutes by someone who may have never had to pass the test himself and who's evaluation includes the mimicing of personal driving behaviours which may have nothing to do with safety (e.g. pressing the handbrake button) is not working!

3. Once the backlog is clear and a driving test can be guaranteed within a month THEN ENFORCE PROVISIONAL LAWS. Take the provisionals off the streets.

We must allow provisionals to drive in order for them to become good drivers. If this requires a few months accompanied, so be it. Perhaps give them an automated "road ready solo" test which requires them to drive for a while with a DGPS, accelerometer, camera device which would be evaluated.

4. GARDI ENFORCE ROAD RULES. In fairness now I have seen them a lot stopping people but they should be able to stop you for random breath checks, etc.

5. ZERO TOLERANCE on drink driving. The level should be lowered to a point where it is not possible to drink and drive. I don't mean 0, but a level that isn't likely to get you nabbed the following day if you are no longer drunk.

Really, really obvious and yet... where are we???

6. SLOW DOWN. Nearly all the muppets I have seen nearly killing someone have been speeding or been trying to get ahead (hard shoulder, overtaking on the left ON A ROUNDABOUT). Most of the roads have a set speed that allows you to maintain a constant speed. For example the N32. The speed limit there is 60kph, however most people just go as fast as possible (80-120) on it. Yet if you go at 60kph unless the person is using the bus lane on that road you will meet up with them at the traffic lights at then 19 times out of 20.

My #1 pet peeve is that people here drive much too fast for conditions and too fast when approacing intersections. When I learned that "failure to progress" was a number 1 cause for failing a driving exam, I began to understand the roots of this behaviour.

My father was a driving instructor in the U.S. where they stress "cover your brake." Here the stress is "keep it in gear or you aren't in control" the mantra is "a cautious driver is an unsafe driver." Drivers are discouraged from leaving a wide gap between themselves and the car ahead. Yes it's important to not ride the clutch, especially here where snow and ice are rare, but this is stressed to the detriment of the importance of being ready to brake or steer away from a problem. Drivers here are convinced that they should accelerate out of problems. This is a terrible strategy in the real world because chances are good that you will be accelerating towards another problem and that problem will become more severe with the square of the increased velocity.

Everyone I know from the U.S. and Canada failed their Irish driving exam with heavy marks for "Failure to progress" and yet the per million km vehicle death rate in most of the U.S. and Canada (where snow and ice are not rare) is lower than it is in Ireland.

7. Report muppets. Use the traffic watch number if there is someone on the road that looks like they may crash.

8. Proper cameras on the motorways.

9. Have drivers retake the driving tests 5 or 10 years after the last test.

Excellent ideas. I'd only add that the government should efficiently spend a tiny fraction of their huge property boom and celtic-tiger windfall to improve the roads and improve the transportation alternatives to driving (so that those of us who prefer to be off the roads can take that option.)

Ardent

HelterSkelter wrote:

The contributory factors listed by members of An Garda Siochana on collision report forms changed little from 2003 (see Table 17 on page 20). Driver error accounted for 88 per cent of all contributory factors identified, while the next most-listed factor, pedestrian error, accounted for 8 per cent. Road Factors accounted for 2 per cent of all listed contributory factors, while the figures for vehicle and environmental factors were 0.2 and 1.3 per cent respectively.

Looks like the work of the Iraqi Information Minister.

Why not a category called Driver Error Brought About By Road Factors?

FillSpectre

Triangle wrote:

What i was saying is that letting someone on the road who has not been tested is asking for trouble.

But if that is not the case i.e. provisional drivers aren't causing accidents then what differnce would it make? As it appears the majority of fatalities are casued by fully qualified drivers it would actually suggest the danger is people with licences.

What you are saying is understood as so is the logic the point is it doesn't actually seem to be a problem

Hobbes

gimmick wrote:

Just because I have learned to look in my mirrors at the right times doesnt make me a better driver than you, but the fact I have a full license suggests that I am.

Well there is much more then just looking in a mirror. A lot of people make fun of the learners but the tests you do now are a 100 times better then what people did 5-10 years ago and I would say most of the provisional drivers know more about the rules of the road then most of the drivers with full licenses.

I mean some of the crap I see every morning is unreal. I watch obvious full license drivers (as its a rare provisional that can own a 05/06 car) Drive down the hard shoulder on the motorway like its another lane, or ignoring lights or tailgating to try and force someone to move out of the way.

People are not being thought how to drive properly in this country

Which is why I said enforce a driving instructor lessons vs your parents/friends.

Now, it would be far too hard to nullify all current full licences out there

No you just enforce driving test again for license drivers if they own a license after a set time. Have them deferred up to a set time (say one year) but if they don't do a test by then they are religated back to a provisional.

Whats an R plate for?

After you pass your test your still treated as a learner for some time. The R plate is to let people know this.

padi89

FillSpectre wrote:

Lets be realistic here bycycles are cretainly not the casue of the majority of road deaths. In fact the more stupid their behaviour the more likely they are of getting killed themselves.

How a cyclists wearing a helmets is going to suddenly reduce the road deaths really doesn't make sense.

Late night driving is certainly a factor and from what I hear drink driving in the rural areas is tolerated by most. Yet aren't most of the death in rural areas? Closing pubs in rural areas would have a bigger effect than cycle helmets IMHO

Fill ,what are you on about? Why are you being so anal?

I never said cyclists are the cause of majority of road deaths or by them wearing a helmet is suddenly going to reduce road deaths.

All i was saying is people using the public roads on bikes should take care as much as drivers.Seesh man,your twisting my post.

The thread is " Carnage On Irish Roads. What Can Be Done?".At the end of the year the numbers of road deaths is always mentioned and how they were killed on the roads.Cycleists and pedestrians are also included in this,while they may not be majority they still make up the numbers none the less.

And "No" pedestrains dont need to be walking around wearing helmets.All road users need to take better care,thats all.

Marksie

There is no single reason
But can be summarised:
in no particular order

1) poorly maintained roads, dangerous most of em
2) allowing learner drivers to drive unaccompanied
3) total disregard for and lack of knowledge of the rules of the road (I live in portlaoise and virtaually no one knows how to use a roundabout correctly.i.e left hand lane signalling left, going right). Also few weeks back I was going down the Plaoise bypass and some guy was in the fast lane coming at me!! i.e the wrong way.
4) aggressive inconsiderate drivers.
5) lack of basic skills..
6) garda not enforcing the rules
7) politicians not giving a toss
8) the us and them... jim mcdaid and his run around the naas dual carriageway. He should have been stuck inside for that!
9) the drink culture, a Total ban on alcohol when behind the wheel should be enforced.

Hobbes

dochasach wrote:

First you have to find qualified instructors.

I agree with this, although a teacher from the very start is more likely to stop you engaging bad habits from the start.

Maybe I got lucky with the LSM teacher I got. The only people who drive that I knew were completly mental on the road to begin with so I went with a teacher before I even tried anything in the car.

Yes. I think this could be done quickly by automating the testing procedure. Use a DGPS+accelerometer+webcam device to record driving for a time.

I like this! Also have it flag the driver to the cops if they are driving in a serious manner that is dangerous to other people. It would allow one instructor to monitor multiple drivers at the same time.

We must allow provisionals to drive in order for them to become good drivers.

Agreed and thats part of the problem of removing them off the road while most will wait over a year for a driving exam.

Dougals Daddy

The answer is simple....
Why can't we all see it.

ALL Irish drivers underqualify for safe driving
We are ALL to blame
Even the Gardai because they are one of us.
Why Why Why can't we ask for international help on this one?
How many more people have to die

I want to see proper policing on every road until the message is clear and licences being taken away FOREVER
It is getting worse daily.
You can drive from one end of this country to the other and not see a Garda car.

I know many people who are unsafe to be on the road , the are fully licenced and not all under 25. The worst thing is they don't know they're doing anything wrong.

It will NOT get better until we stop calling them accidents and get tough.
My prediction is that irish people will continue to die at an alarming rate until we have a Zero tolerance to the breaking of all road rules.
When we feel we can be arrested at the roadside for a minor offence , lose a licence and maybe a car too maybe then and just maybe we mightr all start to be more careful.
Politicians and Gardai will go on pleading for people to be more carefull and its just NOT going to happen.
We have a dangerous driving addiction which had come about from years and years of sloppiness towards rules and safety.

Grow up Ireland.

FillSpectre

padi89 wrote:

Fill ,what are you on about? Why are you being so anal?

Becasue considering the topic to bring up cyclists is riddiculious.

".Carnage On Irish Roads. What Can Be Done?"

Then you suggest cyclists are a problem. Then give out when somebody points out that is not the probelm. In other words a silly suggestion to reduce the carnage.

dochasach

Hobbes wrote:

I agree with this, although a teacher from the very start is more likely to stop you engaging bad habits from the start.

I agree here, as I said, my father was a driving instructor but he even refused to teach his own children. But from what I've seen so far, the average level of instructor compentency there was much higher. If you left it to me, any driving instructor (or tester) who was ever involved in a traffic offence or dented a fender should not be allowed to teach. If I avoided such over 25 years and a quarter of a million miles, certainly a qualify driving instructor should be able to avoid it.

Hobbes wrote:

I like this! Also have it flag the driver to the cops if they are driving in a serious manner that is dangerous to other people. It would allow one instructor to monitor multiple drivers at the same time.

You like it, I like it, it would clear the queue and more importantly, it would save lives. But I suspect the driving instructor and driving tester union would have fits if someone enforced such objective measures of driving safety.

I'll admit it isn't perfect, but it could easily weed out drivers who exceed the speed limit, pull +1G or -1G of acceleration or braking. DGPS is accurate enough to indicate road positioning to within a few centimeters. Add a wide-angle webcam and you have more coverage than a human tester over a much longer testing interval.