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where do all the good admins go

DnaDog

does Ireland have a shortage of good unix sys admins?

I am a unix sys admin and have always had no problem finding work, but always thought there was some amount of competition. In my current position I have been tasked with finding 2 more unix admins but no matter how hard i look or how many agencies i try there does not seem to be any out there.

anyone else have this problem, do we have to go to the uk to try for decent admins.

any advice on where to look?

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leeroybrown

...and you are probably hiring in Dublin.

From what i can see outside the general Dublin area it gets even harder to find 'skilled' Unix/Linux admins.

DnaDog

Yeah dublin it is, I cant imagine how hard it is elsewhere if its so hard here

Khannie

Up 'til I left, there was very little focus on Linux / Unix skills. We did a little course in 2nd year on how to use vi and how to make programs run in the background. In fourth year we did shell scripting.

I used linux as a platform for my final year project....and in the demonstration one guy actually had the balls to tell me that Linux was never going anywhere. I see him around my town sometimes and always think of that moment when I see him. It was a real "640K" moment.

leeroybrown

People give out about nepotism but in my workplace (in Galway) it's proven by far the best way to get reasonable candidates for interview. A large percentage of the CV's I've seen lately have given the impression that they would be unlikely to become 'skilled' admins (with the kind of babysiting that most organisations don't have time for) let alone be able to be put in a position of trust relatively quickly.

It's unfortunate when decisions not to fill a position are the correct ones to take.

I definitely agree that very few (probably none) of the college courses directly produce people with any of the required skills/knowledge. Most people who end up with the skills do so in thier own time or through involvement in Compsoc's/Netsoc's.

philologos

what do you mean by skilled unix admins exactly? I'm sure there would be a couple of Computer Science students finished in university that could be of help

deRanged

I've had the same problem here in Cork.
We weren't even looking for someone overly skilled, just someone who
had a passing knowledge of the basics.

There's a lot to be said for nepotism!

janmolby

Maybe if you gave some details on the type of admin you're looking for i.e. skills needed, experience needed & salary someone on the forum might be interested

leeroybrown

janmolby wrote:

Maybe if you gave some details on the type of admin you're looking for i.e. skills needed, experience needed & salary someone on the forum might be interested

Agreed. You could post the job details on the work forum and create another thread here pointing to it. The next time I'm involved in looking for someone it will probably end up here too.

Jakkass wrote:

what do you mean by skilled unix admins exactly? I'm sure there would be a couple of Computer Science students finished in university that could be of help

When I was referring to 'skilled' (note the quotes) I was thinking along the lines of someone who has sufficient knowledge and experience to be able to learn quickly on the job in a position where they can possibly endanger valuable service uptime, data, etc. Essentially someone whom you can quickly give root/admin access to on large complex systems and not have to constantly babysit.

NutJob

Khannie wrote:

Up 'til I left, there was very little focus on Linux / Unix skills. We did a little course in 2nd year on how to use vi and how to make programs run in the background. In fourth year we did shell scripting.

I used linux as a platform for my final year project....and in the demonstration one guy actually had the balls to tell me that Linux was never going anywhere. I see him around my town sometimes and always think of that moment when I see him. It was a real "640K" moment.

Iv a feeling its exposure in college. I managed to miss/sleep throught the Unix lessons because i dont remember any. I do remember using a unix lab for web surfing as it was empty all the time.

It was on my own outside of education I started using Debian and various other distros and haven’t looked back since(except for game(s))

So I guess not much has changed since I left it looks like an exposure problem.

Or we could blame Microsoft because that’s always a fun thing to do:D

ogh when a juniour sysadmin pops up ill send my c.v. in as i wouldnt call myself sooper skilled

wes

Most people even CS student don't look beyonce MS Windows. Don't get me wrong its important to know about Windows, but I think ignoring UNIX and UNIX like OS's isn't the brightest idea in the world, but sure plenty of people do it anyways. Sure I remember several times telling some people how to ssh and log into a Sunray and show them around Gnome etc,

Khannie

Yeah, in college there was a massive focus on windows, but the reality is that in the workplace, nearly everything on the backend runs on unix or a variant. Only real die hards use windows as a server platform.

liamo

Khannie wrote:

the reality is that in the workplace, nearly everything on the backend runs on unix or a variant.

I'd have to disagree with that statement, Khannie. In my current position I come across loads of Windows servers. It depends on the site, what software they've got, what level of technical ability they've got and also what their OS has been historically. We're seeing a lot of client sites move from SCO to Windows 2003 Server - mostly because that's what they're being sold.

Only real die hards use windows as a server platform.

As someone who has been quite anti-Microsoft in the past, I have to say that they're starting to get things right (well....better, at least) and I don't have a problem anymore working with Windows Servers these days.

Of course, if it was up to me, I'd whip out my CentOS or Debian CDs and save the client a wad of cash, but it's not up to me .....

Regards,

Liam

leeroybrown

liamo wrote:

I'd have to disagree with that statement, Khannie. In my current position I come across loads of Windows servers. It depends on the site, what software they've got, what level of technical ability they've got and also what their OS has been historically. We're seeing a lot of client sites move from SCO to Windows 2003 Server - mostly because that's what they're being sold.

I'd tend to agree with this. Some of the big multinationals are run largely Microsoft based operations. In addition to that I would be confident that a large percentage of small/medium sized companies will be running Microsoft based setups. The small companies probably find it a lot easier to have a person with some Windows knowledge/experience available than they could for Linux. Even in the hosting area Microsoft are clawing their way back. Based on the latest Netcraft survey in hosting 2003/IIS is beginning to take market share from Linux/Apache.

Obviously there are still a lot of companies who won't use Windows for important systems. Web hosting is still Linux dominated despite the Microsoft gains. You won't see anyone using Windows in High End Computing (my area of work). Most telecom's companies are probably still largely Linux/Unix based.

Khannie

Ah, I know some people use windows as a server platform, but I think a lot of that is that (not only are they being sold it) they're comfortable with it as a desktop platform and aren't trained / skilled in unix.

Personally, I think windows is a pretty decent piece of software. I used it, more or less trouble free, since windows 95 (let's not mention 3.x

) and since win2k, I think it's both rock solid and user friendly....I just wouldn't use it to serve lunch.

Khannie

leeroybrown wrote:

Some of the big multinationals are run largely Microsoft based operations.

/some/ yes, but Solaris and other unix's (unices?) have a proven track record at this stage that multinationals surely don't mind paying for. TBH, I've only worked in two companies since leaving college 6 years ago (1 multinational and one telco type), and both have been solaris based at the backend, so I humbly admit that my sample size is small enough that I could be talking through my hole.

Cake Fiend

Khannie wrote:

the reality is that in the workplace, nearly everything on the backend runs on unix or a variant. Only real die hards use windows as a server platform.

Another disagreement here: from what I've seen, windows servers are still very, very common, even in security-related organizations! :eek:

I think you have just been paricularly lucky to have worked in relatively forward-thinking companies.