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Child Item

Credit Card Incident

Duff Man Jr.

I work part time in a Petrol Station in Limerick, when there was a alteracation between me and a customer, today i heard it was in the paper and found this on the web. I would like to know peoples views on the whole Incident. A long post but bear with me.

First my side,
The station has no shop just a window for people to pay, a woman was filling her car and asked me if we do oil, I asked if she ment Engine oil as we also sell a lot of home heating oil. She replied with a attuide as if to say are you stupid of course engine oil.

She got €49 worth of petrol and came over and handed me her card, she took the oil and said she would put it in while the card was going through. She came back and handed me the empty litre without saying anything, i told her there was a bin on the forecourt behind her. She seemed pretty thick at this.

Then i charged her €44.80 instead of €54.80, she came back to me and i sincearly apoligsed and thanked her for pointing it out, so i said i'll put the €10 through from the receipt because it was raining and there was no need for her to get wet. Well she lost her nut and pratically blamed me for every Credit card fraud ever, She turned to a man behind her and told him not to give me a card cause its not safe with me. I tried to tell her that any shop/restraunt/pub etc.... could charge her card from the receipt. She gave me a tenner and stormed off. My boss met the man behind her later and he agreed that there was no need for it!!!!!!!

THE honesty of one customer in a ***** petrol station has sparked off security doubts over the recently introduced Chip and Pin system. Despite crowing about the added security of the system, banks have been left red-faced by a claim from a Limerick consumer that retailers can access bank accounts without the permission, signature or PIN of the card owner. (Noone mentioned bank A/C's, retailers can't access them)

***** ***** from ***** was dismayed at an incident which occurred at a petrol station in ****** on April 19. Ms ***** returned to the cash register when she discovered that she had been undercharged for her transaction and pointed out the discrepancy.

The assistant responded by saying that this wasn’t a problem as the amount could be deducted from her account at a later time, as her bank details would be stored on their machine. (I never mentioned her a/c or machine, i said from the receipt and i wasn't that casual about it.)

Ms ***** was horrified that her account could be accessed without her permission. (No it Can't.)

She contacted her credit card company after the incident but could not get answers to her questions, she claims.

On ringing her bank the following morning she was told that procedures were in place to stop outlets accessing account information without the direct permission of the account holder but that such incidences did still occur.

Ms ***** told the Limerick Post that she had now cancelled her Laser card and would pay in cash in the future.

"Banks are not highlighting the pitfalls of the Chip and Pin system,” she said, "When you receive your credit card receipt all the digits bar the last four are shown. However the retailer retains all your details and can access them,” Ms ***** continued. (Consumer receipt has last four digits, Retailer receipt has all digits and exp. date. No other details)

She feels that the public should be better informed about where they stand.

"A lot of people would no longer be using their bank cards if they thought that someone could access their accounts at a later date. People are under the impression that it is the person behind them that they have to look out for and not the retailer themselves.”

**** ****** of the Consumers Association of Ireland told the Limerick Post that the reason retailers can bypass the PIN number is to facilitate credit card transactions that take place over the phone or online. However he says that more should be done to ensure that retailers cannot abuse customers’ accounts.

When asked what customers can do to better protect themselves, Mr ***** said that the best they can do is to try to deal with reputable retailers and hope that everyone is as honourable as they are themselves.

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Comments

Macker

Seems to me like she has reason to be concerned ,people throw away recipts all the time ,imagine she went back a month later after reciveing her statment ,would she have a hope of recovering the money

RuggieBear

she's a moron but in a customer facing role you have to be very careful to explain exactly the how and the why of what you are doing.

dingding

Did the banks change the system that you have to put in the pin.

secret_squirrel

Relax dude its not your fault that

a) the woman is an idiot
b) she took your comments the wrong way.
c) she decided to go on a crusade for truth justice and the irish way.
d) She shouldnt be allowed out on her own.
e) She strikes me as the sort of person who requires "Contents may be hot" warnings on their food or drink.

Like most banking systems there is an element of trust involved. Even with cash you are trusting that the retail hasnt got a pile of forged fivers under the counter.

Its also not your fault that the local Rag was having a quiet news day.

GerardKeating

Macker wrote:

Seems to me like she has reason to be concerned ,people throw away recipts all the time ,imagine she went back a month later after reciveing her statment ,would she have a hope of recovering the money

When a customer queries a transaction, the Merchant has to produce the receipt, if they do not have a PIN verified receipt for the transaction, the lose the money and the customer get re-emburshed.

The ability to PAN key credit card treansaction still exists, for merchants to do mail order or telephone order transaction, but the merchant assumes more risk, since they are easily disowned by the card holder.

Hagar

Sometimes it just doesn't pay to take shortcuts to help people.
In my experience it always comes back to bite you in the arse.
You are generally better off doing thing the long, but more correct, way with a smile.
The attitude she took with the oil should have set off your "Biddy Alarm".
Better luck next time.

kermitdfrog

EDITED AFTER HOMAH'S WELL MADE POINT. Does she not realise that everytime she hands over her card she's taking a risk? All anyone has to do is write down her number and expiry and ccv and they can use it online or over the phone. Online transactions make up a much smaller proportion of CC fraud than over the counter transactions, yet she flips out now? This is why people should keep a constant eye on their accounts online, so they'll see if something goes wrong as soon as possible, cos as much as you can protect yourself there's no guarantees.

EDIT: Oh, and you should have nipped her attitude in the bud when the oil thing happened. I love dealing with people like that, cos I make them see what an ass their being and they shut up in embarassment.

pclancy

You did nothing wrong man. Neither did the credit card co or your outlet. Standard procedure the whole way, Ive had similar instances where wrong amounts been put in and people have said "tougth ****" and walked out then freaked when they've been charged.

Her attitude stinks too.

DOLEMAN

She kind of has a point though. I thought the whole point of the chip and pin thing was that no money can be taken from the card unless the pin is entered? If I understand correctly, you were going to be able to take extra money from her card without needing the pin?

I don't think you did anything wrong (you were trying to be helpful) but I think she has a point...

homah_7ft

I would recommend people be somewhat wary of their descriptions of the complainant. It is clear she is named specifically in the news story and could very easily be linked to this thread.

Duff Man Jr.

secret_squirrel wrote:

Relax dude its not your fault that

a) the woman is an idiot
b) she took your comments the wrong way.
c) she decided to go on a crusade for truth justice and the irish way.
d) She shouldnt be allowed out on her own.
e) She strikes me as the sort of person who requires "Contents may be hot" warnings on their food or drink.

Like most banking systems there is an element of trust involved. Even with cash you are trusting that the retail hasnt got a pile of forged fivers under the counter.

Its also not your fault that the local Rag was having a quiet news day.

Lol and thanks everyone for the comments

kermitdfrog

DOLEMAN wrote:

She kind of has a point though. I thought the whole point of the chip and pin thing was that no money can be taken from the card unless the pin is entered? If I understand correctly, you were going to be able to take extra money from her card without needing the pin?

I don't think you did anything wrong (you were trying to be helpful) but I think she has a point...

You dont use your pin online, do you? Or over the phone?

Duff Man Jr.

homah_7ft wrote:

I would recommend people be somewhat wary of their descriptions of the complainant. It is clear she is named specifically in the news story and could very easily be linked to this thread.

I Blocked out all names in the OP if the story is linked to this thread its not my problem. She realsed the story into the public domain and in doning so leavesd it open for dissusion in places like this.

I am not named in the news artical but it could also be easily be linked to me.

Jenny_H

I can't see what her problem is - if you book a hotel or hire a car, etc they will always swipe your card and additional charges can be applied after you sign off on the final bill.

However, I don't understand why you have to come on here and look for other peoples' views as there are 2 sides to every story and probably after reading your message and the article we are still only hearing some of what actually happened.

Overall, I'd say to you forget about it - learn from it and to Miss Credit Card she needs to learn about T&C for using her card.

fightin irish

DOLEMAN wrote:

She kind of has a point though. I thought the whole point of the chip and pin thing was that no money can be taken from the card unless the pin is entered? If I understand correctly, you were going to be able to take extra money from her card without needing the pin?

...

I think the may reason for chip and pin is to stop stolen cc's being used by the thief etc...i.e.. nick a purse/bag etc and then buy whatever ever one wants on a forged signature, so the pin replaces the signature.

I had a German dude in with me recently and he nearlY died when i asked him to enter his pin...He never heard of the system..Its only exists in Ireland and the UK(i could be wrong) So i just did the old fashioned way which is quite normal to do in my experience because of above.

@ OP...The woman sounds like a right 'ol biddy (as someone mentioned), D'ont worry about it man, I've worked in the retail/services sector for 15 years and one thing i've learned is no good turn goes unpunished.(not excatly the scenario in your case).
And i'm sorry to say it but again in my experience it's usually middle aged woman who react like this(pls no offence) Just based on my own experiences.

But i tell ya, I'd be rightly pissed at someone going to the press etc with a biddy story like this one:rolleyes:

The Doktor

pin me arse.. dont know how many times ive been asked to sign the reciept cos the pin entering bit of the machine is broken or somthing. Or ive seen people say, "I cant remember my pin.. can i sign".. and never once seen an assistant check the sig against the card...

parsi

fightin irish wrote:

I had a German dude in with me recently and he nearlY died when i asked him to enter his pin...He never heard of the system..Its only exists in Ireland and the UK(i could be wrong) So i just did the old fashioned way which is quite normal to do in my experience because of above.

It certainly exists in Germany. I saw a German TV programme last year which highlighted the fact that shouldersurfers could get your pin.

fightin irish

parsi wrote:

It certainly exists in Germany. I saw a German TV programme last year which highlighted the fact that shouldersurfers could get your pin.

Maybe he wasn't German so:D

me and the biz

The Doktor wrote:

pin me arse.. dont know how many times ive been asked to sign the reciept cos the pin entering bit of the machine is broken or somthing. Or ive seen people say, "I cant remember my pin.. can i sign".. and never once seen an assistant check the sig against the card...

That annoys me too, it takes a sec just check the sig.

Not just a UK/Ireland thing, I've been asked to enter my pin over here a few times.

Lump

Macker wrote:

Seems to me like she has reason to be concerned ,people throw away recipts all the time ,imagine she went back a month later after reciveing her statment ,would she have a hope of recovering the money

She would have every right to claim the money, it it was fraduently taken from the account, even if she disposed of the receipt.

John

TempestSabre

Its no safer than it was before, because if the pin machine is not working (quite often) they go back to using the signature which is no security at all IMO. Then you have over the phone transactions, they ae equally insecure. Nearly every 2nd place you use a cc they try to take it out of your sight to use it, mainly because they have the machine in an awkward place. Which means they have the same problem with every CC customer. But its obviously not such a problem that they've had to move the machine.

WhiteWashMan

Duff Man Jr. wrote:

I work part time in a Petrol Station in Limerick, when there was a alteracation between me and a customer, today i heard it was in the paper and found this on the web. I would like to know peoples views on the whole Incident. A long post but bear with me.

First my side,
The station has no shop just a window for people to pay, a woman was filling her car and asked me if we do oil, I asked if she ment Engine oil as we also sell a lot of home heating oil. She replied with a attuide as if to say are you stupid of course engine oil.

She got €49 worth of petrol and came over and handed me her card, she took the oil and said she would put it in while the card was going through. She came back and handed me the empty litre without saying anything, i told her there was a bin on the forecourt behind her. She seemed pretty thick at this.

Then i charged her €44.80 instead of €54.80, she came back to me and i sincearly apoligsed and thanked her for pointing it out, so i said i'll put the €10 through from the receipt because it was raining and there was no need for her to get wet. Well she lost her nut and pratically blamed me for every Credit card fraud ever, She turned to a man behind her and told him not to give me a card cause its not safe with me. I tried to tell her that any shop/restraunt/pub etc.... could charge her card from the receipt. She gave me a tenner and stormed off. My boss met the man behind her later and he agreed that there was no need for it!!!!!!!

THE honesty of one customer in a ***** petrol station has sparked off security doubts over the recently introduced Chip and Pin system. Despite crowing about the added security of the system, banks have been left red-faced by a claim from a Limerick consumer that retailers can access bank accounts without the permission, signature or PIN of the card owner. (Noone mentioned bank A/C's, retailers can't access them)

***** ***** from ***** was dismayed at an incident which occurred at a petrol station in ****** on April 19. Ms ***** returned to the cash register when she discovered that she had been undercharged for her transaction and pointed out the discrepancy.

The assistant responded by saying that this wasn’t a problem as the amount could be deducted from her account at a later time, as her bank details would be stored on their machine. (I never mentioned her a/c or machine, i said from the receipt and i wasn't that casual about it.)

Ms ***** was horrified that her account could be accessed without her permission. (No it Can't.)

She contacted her credit card company after the incident but could not get answers to her questions, she claims.

On ringing her bank the following morning she was told that procedures were in place to stop outlets accessing account information without the direct permission of the account holder but that such incidences did still occur.

Ms ***** told the Limerick Post that she had now cancelled her Laser card and would pay in cash in the future.

"Banks are not highlighting the pitfalls of the Chip and Pin system,” she said, "When you receive your credit card receipt all the digits bar the last four are shown. However the retailer retains all your details and can access them,” Ms ***** continued. (Consumer receipt has last four digits, Retailer receipt has all digits and exp. date. No other details)

She feels that the public should be better informed about where they stand.

"A lot of people would no longer be using their bank cards if they thought that someone could access their accounts at a later date. People are under the impression that it is the person behind them that they have to look out for and not the retailer themselves.”

**** ****** of the Consumers Association of Ireland told the Limerick Post that the reason retailers can bypass the PIN number is to facilitate credit card transactions that take place over the phone or online. However he says that more should be done to ensure that retailers cannot abuse customers’ accounts.

When asked what customers can do to better protect themselves, Mr ***** said that the best they can do is to try to deal with reputable retailers and hope that everyone is as honourable as they are themselves.

2 things.

im not sure why people keep jumping to the defence of the OP.
noone said anything about him.

secondly, id be bloody worried about people being able to remove money from my account without my permission.

i think the young lady has a point.

bounty

typical paranoid aul one, visa cards are always open to fraud by a cashier copying the numbers, and banks know this, that newspaper article was oldnews

anyway, theres insurance built into visa cards, that covers any fraudulent transactions, once your card was in debit

WhiteWashMan

secret_squirrel wrote:

a) the woman is an idiot.

what? for being worried that someone can remove money from her account without her permission?

secret_squirrel wrote:

b) she took your comments the wrong way..

and?

secret_squirrel wrote:

c) she decided to go on a crusade for truth justice and the irish way..

you mean wanting to find out if money could be removed from her account without permission.
yeah, how stupid of her. what a cnut!

secret_squirrel wrote:

d) She shouldnt be allowed out on her own..

why? what proof do you have of that?

secret_squirrel wrote:

e) She strikes me as the sort of person who requires "Contents may be hot" warnings on their food or drink..

why? are you saying shes stupid?

secret_squirrel wrote:

Like most banking systems there is an element of trust involved. Even with cash you are trusting that the retail hasnt got a pile of forged fivers under the counter..

it hink theres a difference between someone slipping you false fivers, and someone having the ability to remove money from your bank account.

secret_squirrel wrote:

Its also not your fault that the local Rag was having a quiet news day.

isnt that what local rags do? tell local news?

come to think of it, none of your points really make any sense. try and think before you post in future yeah?

The Sweeper

Chip and pin is designed to stop thieves using your bank cards in face to face transactions.

You can still use your card without its pin number over the internet and when ordering, for instance, a home delivery chinese takeaway. In order to prevent fraud in phone and internet transactions, more and more websites and restaurants will ask you for your security code - the three-digit number at the end of the list of numbers on the signature strip on the back of your card.

Inotherwords, it's still possible to commit card fraud if you have the sixteen-digit number on the card, the full name and the expiry date.

Most decent card machine receipts star out 12 of the 16 card numbers specifically to prevent people fraudulently doing the sort of thing the OP unwisely offered to do as a favour, i.e. process another transaction against your card using the printed information on the receipt.

What it really boils down to is whether or not you trust the retailer to whom you've offered your card.

...and if you don't, then why are you giving them your card in the first place?

bounty

yea Minesajackdaniels is right, this woman's crusade just shows her ignorance of the visa system (its always been this way), and how the local rag will print any old scare story

TempestSabre

I used to wonder how they put through tips when paying for meals, and was told the retailer can just put it through afterwards.

Same rule applies as always. Check your reciepts against your statement. Always check anything unknown on it.

Debbio69

If I was that woman, yes i would of pointed out the mistake, you could get into trouble if your till was short but there was no need for her actions afterward.

i think alot of Irish people hav the attitude of ''well i can be as rude as i like because this person is serving me''

The customer is never right!!!! :eek:

Those people who have nothing better to do, than to complain and threaten shop assistants with Joe Duffy need their heads banged together

secret_squirrel

WhiteWashMan wrote:

come to think of it, none of your points really make any sense. try and think before you post in future yeah?

Couldnt have said it better myself Mr Pot.

Tell me do you go trolling when there's not enough modding to do?

Im tempted to refute your comments but most of us realise its futile when you're in this kind of mood. /Ignore tbh.

Guy:Incognito

me and the biz wrote:

That annoys me too, it takes a sec just check the sig.

Not just a UK/Ireland thing, I've been asked to enter my pin over here a few times.

The signature is th emost insecure method possible. Any half-wit that has your card, a pen and bit of paper for 5 mins could have your signature reasonably right.

I've had a lot of spanish people in that have a picture embossed on the back of the card. That, together with chip and pin would be reasonably secure.

WhiteWashMan wrote:

2 things.

im not sure why people keep jumping to the defence of the OP.
noone said anything about him.

secondly, id be bloody worried about people being able to remove money from my account without my permission.

i think the young lady has a point.

Anyone with access to your cc for 10 seconds could rub an imprint into a piece of paper with a pencil, he could have done it on the sly if he wanted to steal, but he didnt he told the customer what he was doing.