Rip off Ireland? (Not complaining...)

I sometimes think we need a good dose of 1987 Irish economy to remind people what it was like before they had it so good.

But I would agree that caviar and bolly is outrageously expensive in Ireland.

AngryAnderson

MySelf56 wrote:

Whining and complaining is new fashion in Ireland. People are just forgetting basic geography that WE ARE ISLAND NATION. We don’t grow bananas here, we have to import it. We have to Import most of the things from main land Europe which it bit longer distance then UK. Those items not just luxurious lingerie it also includes basic commodities such as vegetables. So cost of transportation is adds up to the every item’s imported and lil higher inflation.

Funny how Guinness is cheaper in Leicester Square than Temple Bar.

galah wrote:

I am not saying that same product should cost the same everywhere - I was just making a point that transport is not a massive factor.

Of course there are differences - but here it seems that anything is way more expensive than it should be - food for example. .

Transport is a massive issue AFAIK there is some government policy helping NI get prices the same as the rest of the UK. Posting an item from Dublin to london is expensive but cheaper in NI yet further.
What and how are basing prices are too high here?
Have you done a cost analysis?
Things many people are not aware of Suppliers charge the Irish market more for goods than the UK. THis is not greedy business just costings.

Lidl build a store in Dublin is cost X to build in NI or the UK differncet taxes etc means it cost Y in Belfast.
If X is more than Y who pays the differnce? THe customer. AS most stores in Ireland are built new or newly expanded places rent is a lot higher here. THat is rent alone add the extra tax here (we have a high tax on goods) insurance is higher (everybody knows that). It seems fair goods cost more here can you tell me how the extra costs here can be avoided?

Don't foregt we have the highest minimum wage and low personal taxation.

WE don't have the same economy or model as the UK, GErmany, France etc... Comparing them on small issues and not looking at the big picture becasue you can get a bottle of wine cheaper is really strange if you ask me.

It is moaning without understanding very often if you ask me. Not saying you don't understand just you appear to be making statements and yet there is no proof and you are not even explaining away simple extra costs that are isolatd to Ireland.

AngryAnderson wrote:

Funny how Guinness is cheaper in Leicester Square than Temple Bar.

Not really they have less tax,pay lower wages, lower insurance, brewery system and they make Guinness in England too. :rolleyes: I think it is funnier that people use the end price to say everything is a rip off. Under that theory all property is a rip off because it is based on location. Any adult who can only comprehend prices paid as the only measure should try learning some economics mixed with civics

Lord Nikon

Am I completely worng here but...

Trade Unions want their members getting wage increases, also Public Sector workers want wage increased to keep in line with inflation. Surely their wage increases CAUSE the inflation.

AngryAnderson wrote:

Funny how Guinness is cheaper in Leicester Square than Temple Bar.

Funny how Guiness is more expensive in the Guiness Museum in the Dublin factory (€8 a pint :eek: ) than in Dublin pubs, never mind in Leicester Square

FillSpectre wrote:

Transport is a massive issue AFAIK there is some government policy helping NI get prices the same as the rest of the UK.

When you consider stores like Tesco, which source -say- all of the supply for a particular item (a bottle of wine, say - and yes, I know about duty in IE, but we're talking about NI for a bit here) from a single supplier in IT or FR (when they don't bottle it themselves after carting the stuff in road tankers), the transport price differential per litre/bottle between -say- Liverpool and Belfast are downright infinitesimal. Yet the same bottle will retail in Liverpool for £8 and in Belfast for £11 (and in Tesco IE for €19).

See also for example the labels in NEXT (or equivalent pan-european clothes retailers, e.g. Monsoon and others) - I don't think transport plus exchange rate account for a 50% or more difference between UK and IE (especially when the NI price is the same as the UK)... Just a small note

However, note all TV adverts on UK channels (UTV, Ch4, Ch5...) always portray different prices between UK and NI (always in the small print, and/or to the effect that the offer does not apply in NI, etc.)

FillSpectre wrote:

Things many people are not aware of Suppliers charge the Irish market more for goods than the UK. THis is not greedy business just costings.

Could it be both?

FillSpectre wrote:

(...) low personal taxation

Not so sure about that one, once you've factored in direct plus indirect taxes (in no particular order: PAYE, VAT, bin charge, road tax, etc, etc.). I could be wrong, but I don't expect to be incorrect by more than fractions of a percent, say.

FillSpectre wrote:

WE don't have the same economy or model as the UK, GErmany, France etc... Comparing them on small issues and not looking at the big picture becasue you can get a bottle of wine cheaper is really strange if you ask me.

True but... in order to look at the big picture, it has to be done fairly and should consider, for an equivalent paycheck, what's left after all equivalent expenses (housing, health, taxes, groceries, transport, etc.).

I know for a fact that my €s would go a heck of a way further in Paris, FR or the equivalent £ in London or Sheffield, UK, than they currently do in Dublin, IE. That is fact based on 2 years spent living in Paris, 2 years spent living in Luxembourg (hellishly expensive, still not a patch on Dublin though), over 7 years in the UK and 2 years in Dublin, with about that length in time's worth of monthly/annualised excel spreadsheets covering my living expenses.

I'm not whinging (often

), mind - I rather like it here. But 'they' (whingers) have a point... is my point.

EDIT (re. last portion of quote): but to people who have not necessarily had the benefit of a lot of (frankly, required-) in-depth exposition to foreign life and cost of same, prices are the most accessible basis for comparison.

A reasonably intelligent person will of course understand that there are squillions of factors, all things considered, which explain why a shirt would cost more here than in the UK, and in the UK still more than in France, yet less than all of these in Greece. I believe the topic/OP is more concerned when the price differential approaches the order of magnitude kinda thing (commonly referred to as a 'stupid price for a...'

).

I'm sure PhD theses have been written on the subject of European living cost variations, I'm actually fairly certain that hundreds if not thousands of people are employed by the EU solely to survey and crunch such numbers - that's not the scope of this discussion, I don't think, let's keep it simple-ish: just vote with your wallet

padi89

Yes Ireland is a rip off but i couldnt be arsed complaining.Its just alot easier to sit on my fat ass and order from overseas.

ambro25 wrote:

Funny how Guiness is more expensive in the Guiness Museum in the Dublin factory (€8 a pint :eek: ) than in Dublin pubs, never mind in Leicester Square

DOn't they give you a free sample and to discourage people staying in the pub charge €8? Not sure but that was they way it used to be.

ambro25 wrote:

When you consider stores like Tesco, which source -say- all of the supply for a particular item (a bottle of wine, say - and yes, I know about duty in IE, but we're talking about NI for a bit here) from a single supplier in IT or etc...

A single supplier may still insist prices vary in the markets due to their local product. Supplier cost models have many factors and licence agreements. To set up some things in ireland for the small population they do indeed factor in more price elements. Supplier agreements are very complex on bif brands and chains. For example Tesco could combine it's buying power of the uK with Ireland and out price every other chain here. The supplier doesn't want that so they charge Tesco the same as other Irish stores.

ambro25 wrote:

See also for example the labels in NEXT (or equivalent pan-european clothes retailers, e.g. Monsoon and others) - I don't think transport plus exchange rate account for a 50% or more difference between UK and IE (especially when the NI price is the same as the UK)... Just a small note

That is an exageration. There isn't a 50% or more price difference I have ever heard of produce a product that has. Tax, shipping, exchange rates and extra cost of doing business here combine. If an item has a zero tax rate in the UK and then 21% here I guess it is possible but name an item. Rent in Dublin retail space is a lot more than NI and next is only going into new buildings and or main locations where rent in ireland is considerably more expensive than the UK including NI

ambro25 wrote:

However, note all TV adverts on UK channels (UTV, Ch4, Ch5...) always portray different prices between UK and NI (always in the small print, and/or to the effect that the offer does not apply in NI, etc.)

Not always and only on some products but look back and refer to the supplier price again also.

ambro25 wrote:

Could it be both?

It could be but to assume every thing as greedy and ignore the actual factors is how many people do it. Instead of thinking about factors they are all dismissed end price is quoted and a rip off is decalred and then you get the exageration thrown on top.

ambro25 wrote:

Not so sure about that one, once you've factored in direct plus indirect taxes (in no particular order: PAYE, VAT, bin charge, road tax, etc, etc.). I could be wrong, but I don't expect to be incorrect by more than fractions of a percent, say.

How the hell could you factor all thet in on the price of a t-shirt? THe idea is the person pays tax on goods they buy rather than pay tax on their wage. THe idea being those who are poor pay less tax on what they need and those with money pay tax on the goods they want. Many people don't like paying tax on their luxury goods and complain.

ambro25 wrote:

True but... in order to look at the big picture, it has to be done fairly and should consider, for an equivalent paycheck, what's left after all equivalent expenses (housing, health, taxes, groceries, transport, etc.).

No you don't you look at the overall quality of life through out your social structure. You can't afford a huge car you don't say but in Germany I could. You say I can't affford a big car but people have jobs and can feed themselves and the government don't dictate how I must take care of adult family memebers. Average wages etc can be used and Ireland does very well when gauged this way but Irish people do not gauge it that way. Peolpe can afford a house or rent but people here complain I can't buy a 3 bed house as asingel person things were beter when a person like me could even though I was only a child then that's how I remember it.

ambro25 wrote:

EDIT (re. last portion of quote): but to people who have not necessarily had the benefit of a lot of (frankly, required-) in-depth exposition to foreign life and cost of same, prices are the most accessible basis for comparison.

So it is completely inaccurate an adult with minimum eductaion should know this. They are also selectively cherry picking good prices from around the world. People are making themselves misreable

ambro25 wrote:

A reasonably intelligent person will of course understand that there are squillions of factors, all things considered, which explain why a shirt would cost more here than in the UK, and in the UK still more than in France, yet less than all of these in Greece. I believe the topic/OP is more concerned when the price differential approaches the order of magnitude kinda thing (commonly referred to as a 'stupid price for a...' ).

I don't think all reasonable inteeligent people can withstand the constant media and moaning from people about how things are a rip off. The constant level of it has an effect. THE OP was asking is it moaning or a fact. I consider it moaning fed by the media and passed about by uninformed people and those who would ignore the facts.

ambro25 wrote:

I'm sure PhD theses have been written on the subject of European living cost variations, I'm actually fairly certain that hundreds if not thousands of people are employed by the EU solely to survey and crunch such numbers - that's not the scope of this discussion, I don't think, let's keep it simple-ish.

THere is a differnt standard of culture and life for what ever reason lots of irish people want to bring it all down to the price of things and want to moan about how expensive it is without any comprehension of true cost,value etc...

FillSpectre wrote:

DOn't they give you a free sample and to discourage people staying in the pub charge €8? Not sure but that was they way it used to be.

Free sample is for when you go to the panoramic bar. Dunno what price a pint would be in there but I'd expect more than €8 as the place ain't big and you're right, it's in their interest to keep the flow going.

But the €8 pint to which I referred is in the restaurant on last floor of the old brewery (building in which the musuem is), in which you eat and therefore do not need 'discouraging' (big room, plenty of space)

FillSpectre wrote:

A single supplier may still insist prices vary in the markets due to their local product. Supplier cost models have many factors and licence agreements. To set up some things in ireland for the small population they do indeed factor in more price elements. Supplier agreements are very complex on bif brands and chains. For example Tesco could combine it's buying power of the uK with Ireland and out price every other chain here. The supplier doesn't want that so they charge Tesco the same as other Irish stores.

Somehow, I'm doubtful supermarket chain suppliers have that kind of clout, unless their name is Coke or Heinz, and customers expect these brands in-store and not Tesco's own.

FillSpectre wrote:

That is an exageration. There isn't a 50% or more price difference I have ever heard of produce a product that has.

Yes, my bad: £9.99 (€14.57 as of today's exchange rate) versus €19.99, so a 37% variation, which the 4% differential between IE and UK VAT, as well as increased transportation costs (these Stena ferries are horribly expensive), not helped by the rising cost of fuel (twice over: reflected in ferry price and lorry transport costs!) and the vast rent/lease differential between Liffey Valley and Oxford Street will explain away no doubt.

FillSpectre wrote:

It could be but to assume every thing as greedy and ignore the actual factors is how many people do it. Instead of thinking about factors they are all dismissed end price is quoted and a rip off is decalred and then you get the exageration thrown on top.

True and admitted on my part. We're not all saints, never mind fair.

FillSpectre wrote:

How the hell could you factor all thet in on the price of a t-shirt? THe idea is the person pays tax on goods they buy rather than pay tax on their wage. THe idea being those who are poor pay less tax on what they need and those with money pay tax on the goods they want. Many people don't like paying tax on their luxury goods and complain.

Hang a 'tick - you raised the high min-wage/low tax thing in IE, not me.

I'm just contrasting it, by saying essentially that someone on a low min-wage in FR taxed overall at 20% may have the same spending power as someone on a high min-wage in IE who is also taxed overall at 20%, since prices in FR are lower and prices in IE are higher. Horses for courses, swings and roundabouts.

Never said it had anything to do with "factor all thet in on the price of a t-shirt?" (though it does, after a fashion).

Put it that way: given any t-shirt in any retailer of any country, this particular t-shirt costs the same to buy to the punter, whether he be rich or poor. Whether the punter be rich or poor is irrelevant, and whether the punter can or can't afford the t-shirt is deffo irrelevant: if that t-shirt costs the retailer more to import and resell (because of VAT, lease amount, salaries to staff, etc.) than in another country, that is relevant (to explain the price difference), and whether the retailer can still get a 200% margin on the t-shirt because local punters will pay it, when his competitor in the next country is lucky if he can make 100%, that is relevant also.

FillSpectre wrote:

They are also selectively cherry picking good prices from around the world. People are making themselves misreable

How very true. I mean that.

All the same, re.'cherry-picking prices from around the world', this interweb thingy must have seriously bugg*red the sh*t out of old school retailers, though

Now this (the changing business model of retail, from traditional bricks and mortar to global virtual mall) I'd say is very relevant (and not just to IE at all), and the pervasiveness of access to the Internet in all countries has and continues to develop awareness of what constitutes "value for money" (perceived, rightly or wrongly so) when looking at prices for whatever. In that respect, shamelessly, I'll refocus my point/argument as such: IE is no more of a rip-off (in general terms) than any other developed country, but individual retailers/service providers may at times however.

FillSpectre wrote:

I don't think all reasonable inteeligent people can withstand the constant media and moaning from people about how things are a rip off. The constant level of it has an effect. THE OP was asking is it moaning or a fact. I consider it moaning fed by the media and passed about by uninformed people and those who would ignore the facts.

True also, witness how notorious Eddie-what's-his-name TV programs not so long back were riddled with unsaid/not researched facts (that were *very* pertinent) the size of little planets.

ambro25 wrote:

Somehow, I'm doubtful supermarket chain suppliers have that kind of clout, unless their name is Coke or Heinz, and customers expect these brands in-store and not Tesco's own.

They do all the vinyards in each country are unionised and control their prices. Supplier branding has strict control over it's pricing models in most countries as many common products are owned by big companies.

ambro25 wrote:

nd the vast rent/lease differential between Liffey Valley and Oxford Street will explain away no doubt.

ACtually the lease in liffey valey is more expensive (per sq foot)as the lease is signed with long term options on the likes of Oxford street. Habitait in dublin for example had a good lease on the place in Steven's Green the built up the spot and had a fixed term blah blah so by them moving the got a better location less rent and a huge profit from selling the lease. Lots of standards business practice aren't black and white so from the "common sense" view it doesn't match up. The fact suppliers provide DVD in NI cheaper than here even though delivered in the same truck just doesn't makes "sense".

ambro25 wrote:

I'm just contrasting it, by saying essentially that someone on a low min-wage in FR taxed overall at 20% may have the same spending power as someone on a high min-wage in IE who is also taxed overall at 20%, since prices in FR are lower and prices in IE are higher. Horses for courses, swings and roundabouts.

Nice point I didn't think that was what you were saying.

ambro25 wrote:

Put it that way: given any t-shirt in any retailer of any country, this particular t-shirt costs the same to buy to the punter, whether he be rich or poor. Whether the punter be rich or poor is irrelevant, and whether the punter can or can't afford the t-shirt is deffo irrelevant: if that t-shirt costs the retailer more to import and resell (because of VAT, lease amount, salaries to staff, etc.) than in another country, that is relevant (to explain the price difference), and whether the retailer can still get a 200% margin on the t-shirt because local punters will pay it, when his competitor in the next country is lucky if he can make 100%, that is relevant also.

Yes relevant but not true in every case and predominated not the case. Insurance in Ireland is huge! Setting up business in Ireland has a cost. That basic running cost also cost more per item the smaller the amount of stores in a market. It is not worth setting up a company in a small market unless there is a slightly larger profit.

ambro25 wrote:

All the same, this interweb thingy must have seriously bugg*red the sh*t out of old school retailers, though

Yes but with some valid points about how people use the touch and feel elements of the trad stores and then the purcahsing on the net. The EU also copped on and brought the tax rules around and these will be further restricted in time. I don't want the towns and cities to be come ghost towns so I could get a couple of euro off my toaster.

Carbon tax will come in as there will be benifits to local economies by doing so.

ambro25 wrote:

True also, witness how notorious Eddie-what's-his-name TV programs not so long back were riddled with unsaid/not researched facts (that were *very* pertinent) the size of little planets.

I still don't understand why people refer to him as the bench mark for truth. He has been proved to be at the very least wrong about some statemnts made. I really wouldn't trust a words he says. I liked "Show me the Money" but that was becasue of the idiots it showed not him.

FillSpectre wrote:

I don't want the towns and cities to be come ghost towns so I could get a couple of euro off my toaster.

Good point re. "ghost towns", however this directly relates back to the problem: if retailers continually take the p*ss (because localised market dynamics allow them to), to the point where punters get increasingly disincentivised to buy in bricks-and-mortar when they can 'save a couple €s off their toaster' online (remember: "perceived value for money"), then those retailers can only blame themselves for not looking after their market.

We have a saying in France which goes Tant va la cruche à l'eau qu'à la fin elle se casse (Transl: you take the pot to the well so often that in the end it breaks). I believe it's somehow relevant here.

Not to mention that if it was just a couple €s, your point would be entirely fine. However, this thread discusses 'Ireland' as a whole and therefore, we're not looking at 'just' a couple €s: we're looking at a couple €s here, a couple €s there and a couple €s everywhere, 'til in the end it makes quite a sum.

By way of example, from the spreadsheets I mentioned earlier in-thread (in which I collate everything on a monthly basis: utilities bills, phone, weekly food, insurance, etc.), I'm working a rough percentage of nearly 20% more expensive to live in Ireland/Dublin than Sheffield/UK. Of course, and to be fair, note that I'm not factoring inflation over time (thus comparing '04 UK prices with '06 IE prices, for instance).

Important point to note, however: up until I moved to IE, my spreadsheets always included mortgage repayments - now they don't (I ain't buying a pile of bricks at them prices - you guys are mad!

). So that's 20% on top without a mortgage.

I can't say I'm worse off, because my income has kept up and the net effect is to negate the added cost, but I'm doubting the same can be said at the minimum wage level.

So the people who deny that Ireland is a ripp-off, are also denying of the double taxation in the form of VRT, which happens to be illegal and yet continues? :rolleyes:

the_syco

When the min wage was £5, a pint would cost £2.50 (or less). Now the min wage is €7.65, and a pint costs €3.80 My point (no pun intended) is that a pint it still half the minimum wage, but we think it costs more.

If the minimum wage increased, so would the price of everthing else. But, instead of comparing the price to the minimum, wages, and the old price, and what it used to compare to the old minimum wages, we just see a larger sum, thus it seems costs more.

Add to that, when the yoyo came in, all the retailers rounded off the prices UP, so the price was even more expensive, rather than rounding it off to the nearest cent.

ambro25 wrote:

Good point re. "ghost towns", however this directly relates back to the problem: if retailers continually take the p*ss (because localised market dynamics allow them to), to the point where punters get increasingly disincentivised to buy in bricks-and-mortar when they can 'save a couple €s off their toaster' online (remember: "perceived value for money"), then those retailers can only blame themselves for not looking after their market.

ambro25 wrote:

Not to mention that if it was just a couple €s, your point would be entirely fine. However, this thread discusses 'Ireland' as a whole and therefore, we're not looking at 'just' a couple €s: we're looking at a couple €s here, a couple €s there and a couple €s everywhere, 'til in the end it makes quite a sum.

That is simply not true and more exageration. Some things are cheaper now than they have ever been yet people say things have gone up. Beer in an off licence is cheaper. You couldn't get 24 bottles of beer for less the £IR24. Furniture is cheaper as are clothes. Cheery picking how prices have gone down and choice has increased doesn't seem to be popular as it doesn't sell media. You can now live a cheaper life than before but people want all the good stuff and are willing to pay more they just happen to complpain about it too. Brand loyalty and recognistion in Ireland is very strong hence laungae like a "packed of king" "I'll have a Paddys" quite unusual compared to other countries.

ambro25 wrote:

By way of example, from the spreadsheets I mentioned earlier in-thread (in which I collate everything on a monthly basis: utilities bills, phone, weekly food, insurance, etc.), I'm working a rough percentage of nearly 20% more expensive to live in Ireland/Dublin than Sheffield/UK. Of course, and to be fair, note that I'm not factoring inflation over time (thus comparing '04 UK prices with '06 IE prices, for instance).

Inflation went up, fuel went up, small market and increased wages. We are dependednt of fuel imports and in more danger than most and no colonial kick backs coming in.

ambro25 wrote:

Important point to note, however: up until I moved to IE, my spreadsheets always included mortgage repayments - now they don't (I ain't buying a pile of bricks at them prices - you guys are mad! ). So that's 20% on top without a mortgage.

I take it you are here becasue you can work where as you can't in France. If not there are many others here for that reason. France also has a socialist model with restrictions on property sales. You are effectively comparing capatalism with employment and socalism without employment.

ambro25 wrote:

I can't say I'm worse off, because my income has kept up and the net effect is to negate the added cost, but I'm doubting the same can be said at the minimum wage level.

Maybe but it isn't that bad either. Most pressure is for luxury.

Klas wrote:

So the people who deny that Ireland is a ripp-off, are also denying of the double taxation in the form of VRT, which happens to be illegal and yet continues?

Yes becasue one example of tax on a item that the country needs to reduce from being purcahsed is not a great example. It is a snide remark which doesn't add to the discussion instead it is just dismissive of the debate.

Yes becasue one example of tax on a item that the country needs to reduce from being purcahsed is not a great example. It is a snide remark which doesn't add to the discussion instead it is just dismissive of the debate.

Not really. it was a question that you've failed to answer, when in fact its been you that has dismissed the example. its a VERY valid point considering the amount it adds to the cost of just about any vechicle.

I didn't think you'd want a list of items that cost excessively more here as opposed to other countries, and chose the biggest example of the way we're ripped off.

But then, you probably don't want to truely acknowledge that, just like the government. :rolleyes:

Deleted User wrote:

Not really. it was a question that you've failed to answer, when in fact its been you that has dismissed the example. its a VERY valid point considering the amount it adds to the cost of just about any vechicle.

I didn't think you'd want a list of items that cost excessively more here as opposed to other countries, and chose the biggest example of the way we're ripped off.

But then, you probably don't want to truely acknowledge that, just like the government. :rolleyes:

You just like to argue it is quite sad. You also have poor ability to understand what is said. I did answer the question you just aren't bright enough to understand. VRT does not prove the entire pricing in thios country is a rip off it is small narrow view.

List all you like but you are unable to balance things which is the point. You can cherry pick to prove bad prices and as said end prices prove nothing and only stupid ill-educated people use it.

P>S>
VRT is not illegal prove it is or retract.

MidnightQueen

Definetly rip off Ireland!! Especially for students!!! Cost too much even to get transport when u cant afford your own!!

KittyKat wrote:

Definetly rip off Ireland!! Especially for students!!! Cost too much even to get transport when u cant afford your own!!

Yeah the free education is really tough. The grant should really pay for it all. :eek: Maybe you should understand that students in Ireland have it easier than many other places. THere is no government student loan schemes (UK), costs are low (US) etc...
I cycled to college but transport is cheaper for students anyway so how much is too expensive for transport now?

U-oh, we be on the slippy-slidey slope again

FillSpectre wrote:

That is simply not true and more exageration. Some things are cheaper now than they have ever been yet people say things have gone up.

Just as true, following your logic, to state that some things are more expensive now than they have ever been and that you sir, indeed, are cherry-picking also to substantiate your point.

Note that

Cheery picking how prices have gone down and choice has increased doesn't seem to be popular as it doesn't sell media

is a good point, all the same. Then again, there's always two sides to every story anyway.

FillSpectre wrote:

Inflation went up, fuel went up, small market and increased wages. We are dependednt of fuel imports and in more danger than most and no colonial kick backs coming in.

By nearly 20% in 2 to 3 years? What is a 'colonial kickback', BTW?

FillSpectre wrote:

I take it you are here becasue you can work where as you can't in France. If not there are many others here for that reason. France also has a socialist model with restrictions on property sales. You are effectively comparing capatalism with employment and socalism without employment.

Erm... where to start? (i) I'm here because I was asked here, not because I decided some bright morning that I wanted to be here and (ii) the nearly 20% I'm stating is in comparison to the UK over the '04/'05 period, not FR... you'd be well advised not to jump to populist conclusions, that demeans you somewhat. Oh, and I can work just fine in France, I just don't want to be there - is all

Insofar as the VRT is concerned, that topic has been done to death. The manner in which the tax is calculated is a rip-off, because a portion of the net tag price does amount to double taxation (not all of the VAT or the VRT, but the "overlapping" portion). And you shouldn't be so quick to discount the price of cars, considering how much buying and keeping one car costs on these shores, in view of the fact that a car is the second most expensive capital expenditure for most households and most households do require a car these days, as not all households live in Dublin with a reasonable transport infrastructure and services.

Note that I still didn't say all of Ireland was a rip off - but in the particular instance of VRT, considering that IE personal taxation and wages are comparable to other EU countries which do not levy a VRT-type tax, it appears so