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Child Item

secondary school league table

thebaz

trying to pick a secondary school for our son, is causing grief. His mother wants to send him to school topping the school league table - gonzaga , if he can get in ; logically i see her point, sends highest number of pupils to 3rd level , but i wonder will he get a balanced education , or will he be surrounded by elitist academics , he is an average student in regular NS, loves soccer not rugby . While we are far from D4 high rollers, we could afford fees , thereabouts . I don't think he will get in, so i suspect i will win this one, but if he does am i paranoid about elitism at this establishment ? i want whats best for him overall, not just academically !

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Amazotheamazing

Hermione* wrote:

This is called parenting. So do I. Because my parents brougt me up that way. So do all my schoolfriends. We all went to very good schools, schools that had been private when our parents attended them but switched to the public education sector in 1966. My parents could have paid for me to go to the boarding school my mum went to, so it wasn't a money issue. Private education is virtually non-existent in Limerick, and while I've always been kept away from the less pleasant aspects of the city, I think it gave us a wider viewpoint to have been publicly educated. All my friends went to university, most into the professions.

To the OP: Having followed these tables from curiousity for a couple of years, most southside schools whether free or private are going to have the advantages of well-heeled students. Some private schools actually have larger classes. Marian College in Ballsbridge has tiny class sizes, very high rates of university attendence and is free. But from what I've seen and read, two of the best schools in Dublin at the moment are Colaiste Eoin and Colaiste Iosagain in Stillorgan. But not every body approves of education through Irish.

You can't compare the two cities because Limerick is so much smaller than Dublin and only has a handful of schools to choose from, each one with a separate reputation. If I were in Dublin I'd definately consider sending my kids (had I any) to a private school.

Thirdfox

It was on Sky News that Limerick might be reclassified in the latest census and lose their "city" status... just a random fact!

If your son were a girl I was told that Muckross was a very good (non-private) secondary school. I hear good things about Terenure too.

To be frank the Institute of Education is great if you want results, but life learning? I'm not so sure - sport is optional!!! How crazy is that? A school that doesn't place any emphasis on developing the physical/health side of a child's life isn't that great for my son/daughter anyway.

gilroyb

Thirdfox wrote:

If your son were a girl I was told that Muckross was a very good (non-private) secondary school. I hear good things about Terenure too.

I wouldn't send a dog to Terenure College to be honest. I'm not against fee paying schools in general, but there is no reason to pay for Terenure College when there are other free schools nearby. If you're paying, pay for somewhere else. Most Terenure students miss out on the excellent education some schools give, but get that amazing arrogance that only private schools can offer.

Thirdfox wrote:

To be frank the Institute of Education is great if you want results,

I'd say the Institute may well be great if YOUR CHILD wants results. It is very easy to fall between the cracks in the Institute unless the student themselves is highly motivated.

JC 2K3

As a student in Coláiste Eoin right now I'd just like to add that someone's Irish being poor isn't much of an excuse not to send them here, you pick up Irish very quickly, it's possible to get by with pigeon Irish if you must and about 50% of 1st years coming in will feel isolated and unable to understand anything for the first month or two, but once you settle in(and it's a great life experience IMO, with the picking up a new language etc.) there's a great school atmosphere, mainly very good teachers and as of 2 years ago a brilliant sports hall and a modern classroom block with a great computer room, a "léachtlann"(lecture room with tiered seats), science labs etc. In terms of sport we excell in Hurling/Gaelic(obviously), but also Athletics and Basketball(mainly Col Íosagáin, but our Col Eoin's 4th year team got 2nd in Ireland in their 1st year).

Oh, and no fees

Hermione*

I was pretty sure that Colaiste Eoin was public. From everything I've heard though the results and facilities are as good, if not better, than many private schools.

For me anyway, the two colaisti appear to combine the advantages of private schools (parent involvement, small classes and so on) without the elitism of some private schools. But then again, I'm really into Irish so that'd be a huge factor ibn choosing one of those schools for my child.

JC 2K3

You also get the advantage of both a single sex and co-ed school, you get mixed for 4/7 subjects(ie. not Irish, English and Maths) in 5th and 6th year, but single sex education until then.

lodgepole

gilroyb wrote:

I wouldn't send a dog to Terenure College to be honest. I'm not against fee paying schools in general, but there is no reason to pay for Terenure College when there are other free schools nearby. If you're paying, pay for somewhere else. Most Terenure students miss out on the excellent education some schools give, but get that amazing arrogance that only private schools can offer.

Not that I want to get into a "my school is better than your school" type discussion, but I attended Terenure College (grad 1999) and none of the above was the case. Collaiste Eanna achieved similar academic results, but IMO didn't create as many well rounded graduates. Templeogue was worse academically and shared some of the less admirable qualities of Terenure such as the percieved arrogance (despite being a public school it has something of a private school mentality). Of my year there are only maybe ten people who I wouldn't consider greeting if I met them on the street. For people I know who attended both Colaiste Eanna and Templeogue the opposite is true.

dRNk SAnTA

Private schools have better pupil-teacher class ratios. Private schools have better facilities and I don't think its wrong to say that many pupils in private schools high goals in life - that is a good atmosphere to place your son in the middle of.

I went to St. Andrews College in Booterstown, it was a brilliant school that I loved. It has fantastic sports facilities and an ambitious redevelopment plan of their academic facilities, which they've already started. The school had a strong antibullying policy and I found bullying to be practically non-existant. The school had a great atmosphere in general.

I guess you're worried that your son would become a 'ponce' or a snob by attending a private school. If thats what you think then thats fine, but I can tell you that not all private schools are the same as grind schools and I had a very well rounded education. And lets not beat around the bush - lowering your sons education standards because of a silly preconception is not really in his interest. Sending him to a private school will give him the best opportunity achieve the course he desires on the CAO.

However I would not say that you should decide on the school because of how it ranks on some list. For instance the secondary school ranking lists don't take into account student who attend college outside the EU. St Andrews is an international school and many people in my year when you universities in asia and ivy league colleges in the states. A guy in the year ahead of me got a scholarship to yale. Visit the schools and judge it yourself, thats the best way in my opinion.

Funkstard

Well, as a student of CBC I can tell you a few things about it, let you hear from personal experience or something.

The vast majority of those who go/have gone to CBC Monkstown say the same thing: you come out of the school with such strong bonds and friendships with your year it's unbelievable. We fully believe no other school we know of are as close as the people in CBC. There's no cliques really, no snobbery, we're not the best at rugby (but getting better, and if you're in any way factoring the level of sport in the school, then you're choosing right because the structures in the school are great. Every year there's at least one All-Ireland athletic champion, nearly every year a Leinster schoolboy player, and football & gaelic are gaining an increased foothold in the school) so there's none of that D4 shíte either.

Fair enough the building is a disgrace, but the plans are made for the new school and anyway, there's still LCD projectors in nearly every class, brilliant TG & Art facilities and decent computers. I've never ever been hindered by the state of the school building.

As for extra-curricular activities, IMO CBC is great again. Wth the school alone I've gone to Finland, South Africa and also America 3 times. Transition year in the school is very well done, the highlight being the musical with Loreto Foxrock. They really make the effort to make it completely different than the other years. Apart from that, there's loads of clubs and activities that I'm not really bothered getting into.

Basically, from what I've taken from my time in the school we get all the best parts of both the public and private sector. The best of the private in that we have excellent facilites, sports etc. and public in that there's 'real' people in the school. Even if you wanted to be a mindless jock you wouldn't get too far because you'd get it absolutely ripped out of you. Ando also what I said earlier about us being close, I don't know if it's just my year, but I can't emphasise it enough. Nearly every day something happens that has me in tears with laughter, and everyone's friends with everyone else. I just don't see that closeness in other schools.

Oh and the level of teaching isn't that bad too. A maths teacher who is known as one of the best in the country, a TG teacher who has taught me and brought me to an A grade in the subject in one year, and several other stand out teachers in various subjects. I think we're in the top 10 of some of those league tables, but I wouldn't take much value out of them for anything. Sure you'll do well in school if you want, but there's so much more to school than that.

I dunno, I just thought I'd describe the school as I see it and maybe it will help you. Any school in the south dublin area is going to be good I suppose, at least all the ones you're thinking of sending your son too. It's just that I see something special in CBC.

Red Alert

First and most important thing is: find the right school for your son, not you, or your wife!

Like Bigjim and Irlrobins I went to Gonzaga too, which sometimes gets badly slated for being a private school, which I think is unfair.

It's a relatively academic environment, but there's a wide variety of subjects. For example I was into science and maths in particular; so I took Physics, Chemistry, Applied Maths as well as Economics for the Leaving Cert. However Greek, Latin, Art, Music, History, Geography and Biology were also on the table and had a healthy following. Despite the 'west-brit' connotations that private schools sometimes get, I had the best Irish teacher I've ever had in that school.

I was neither good at nor interested in playing sports, there's a strong rugby tradition in the school and everyone's encouraged to go along to support the JCT and SCT matches. This is really exciting and does make a good bond between everyone - I particularly remember heading down to Roscrea in coaches to see a JCT match. Cricket and tennis are played in the summer, and there are active Chess and Table Tennis teams.

Debating is another strong point, which isn't offered in many other schools. People regularly enter things like the Young Scientist, and other individual pursuits like Swimming. All of these things get acknowledged at regular assemblies of the school which is good for everyone's morale.

Drama is in the form of the school opera (which is really good fun for all involved) and the sixth year play (which is a very classy production). We regularly mix with various girls' schools in these productions such as Muckross and Our Ladys Tempelogue, and a few lads have gone to star in other schools productions too. I'd really recommend someone to do this as you get to know a different set of people in your year and all the teachers on a very different level.

Like many other private schools, discipline is strong in zaga. You will not get away with being careless or acting the maggot. However, I realised how important this was when I got my first part-time job: i was always on time, well attired and behaved myself. Religion is an integral aspect of the school, and many other private catholic secondary schools would be similar in this regard. School masses, reconciliation and retreats are taken seriously and the fifth year retreat (if it's still on) is very good, no matter how religious your are.

There is a really good mix of people there, don't let the D4 connotations put you off. It's healthy to rub shoulders with all sorts of people: if i'd gone to school locally i'd have known nobody outside ballinteer. However, i knew a whole load of people from both home and school as i grew up and i think that's a big benefit too.

thebaz

I also attended gonzaga for a couple of years in the nineties , i didn't stay , and didn't like it . Too academic , greek, chess , etc etc. and there was alot of dublin 4 snobs. although i have heard it has changed and not so elitist now. To be honest they were not as bad as the Rock and Clongowes set . Michaels seems a fairly balanced private school with a good mix, strong on the rugby though.

giddyup

I went to a community school and it was a ****hole with poor facilities and half (ish) the student body were scumbags. At the time it was where I wanted to go and I don't think I would have let my parents talk me out of it (they were happy for me to go there anway). My parents wouldn't have been too concerned about academic performance etc. With hindsight I realise now that I hadn't a clue about why I should go to one school over another. For my own kids, I'll definitely have the final word on where they are going - 11-12 year olds are not equipped to properly consider the full implications of a decision like that.

On the public v private debate it may be a generalisation but I believe that in prviate schools more people have aspirations of getting to University and that would tend to permeate down to the weaker performers. The reverse is true for public schools i.e. better performers are probably dragged down a little by the pervading air of academic apathy.

Bottom line - send kids to private if you can and let good parenting knock any of the associated (& usually sports-driven) arrogance out of them.