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Leargas 7.30 tonight

Aquos76

Just a heads up to let people know about Leargas which is just about to start. Sorry about short notice.
Tonight edition is:
" A report on how Waterford City Council want to take over six thousand acres ot the best land in South Kilkenny"

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meldrew

Saw the programme very good , its probably repeated late at night during the week knowing rte so anyone who missed it can get to tape it

mike65

I like the loaded programme title Aquos76!

Was it of any interest or even fair?

Mike.

Aquos76

IMO it was very one sided. Dick Dowling was on mouthing off about the GAA and about Waterford Golf Club been in Kilkenny and taking part in lenister competitions. He also referred to the fact that the members of the golf club resented this. All his arguments were based on how successful Kilkenny have been in the past. There were 5 guys from slieverue also on where Kilkenny jerseys who all wanted to remain in Kilkenny for GAA reasons.

Mary Roche was the on representing Waterford. Her only reference to the GAA was if someone was to play for whatever club or county, leave them decide themselves.

Jack Burchall(local historian) also gave a insight in to how the boundary has been increased 4 or 5 times over the last 100 years.

It was a very well made programme with some very good view of our city. Waterford Corp have to date received over 10,000 objectors to the proposed boundary extension. Most of these are from Kilkenny.

Freddie59

Aquos76 wrote:

IMO it was very one sided. Dick Dowling was on mouthing off about the GAA and about Waterford Golf Club been in Kilkenny and taking part in lenister competitions. He also referred to the fact that the members of the golf club resented this. All his arguments were based on how successful Kilkenny have been in the past. There were 5 guys from slieverue also on where Kilkenny jerseys who all wanted to remain in Kilkenny for GAA reasons.

Mary Roche was the on representing Waterford. Her only reference to the GAA was if someone was to play for whatever club or county, leave them decide themselves.

Jack Burchall(local historian) also gave a insight in to how the boundary has been increased 4 or 5 times over the last 100 years.

It was a very well made programme with some very good view of our city. Waterford Corp have to date received over 10,000 objectors to the proposed boundary extension. Most of these are from Kilkenny.

Saw it too. The bould Dick lives about 30 metres from the City boundary and has spent his life working in Waterford....but ultimately the programme revolved around hurling.:rolleyes:

Had to laugh at the lads in Slieverue (all speaking with Waterford accents!) about how worried they were that they wouldn't win some obscure Junior League title. Talk about prioritising!! And as for yer man with the tape running across the hall demonstrating the boundary........

Thought the best one was the Historian who does the Waterford walking/talking tours (he was very good actually) turned out to be from KK. I always said there was nothing there worth talking about.........:p

Aquos76

Freddie59 wrote:

Thought the best one was the Historian who does the Waterford walking/talking tours (he was very good actually) turned out to be from KK. I always said there was nothing there worth talking about.........:p

That was funny alright. Spends all his days doing these walking tours around the city and then he tells us he is kilkenny through and through...

meldrew

Best comment out of him was something along the lines of " if your shirt was robbed it does'nt matter whether it was yesterday or a hundred years ago it's still robbed " and he really meant it ! What a plonker

Our man in Havana

Any idea of when it will be repeated?

Freddie59

meldrew wrote:

Best comment out of him was something along the lines of " if your shirt was robbed it does'nt matter whether it was yesterday or a hundred years ago it's still robbed " and he really meant it ! What a plonker

Some craic alright! The topic of discussion was essentially how to properly administer a sprawling urban area, which Mary Roche presented very well, but, with the Kilkenny people, it just ended up about........hurling.:eek: :rolleyes:

Talk about getting your priorities straight..........

kano476

showed the kilkenny folks as ignorant hicks which they deserve if they let people like that on the t.v.

trishw78

I resent that Comment we're not ignoriant hicks... We're proud of our heritage and alot of great Kilkenny Hurlers came from the Slieverue area...

Fair enough Dick Dowling does get on Peoples wicks abit but, he has a fair point the Golf Club is in Kilkenny, as is Waterford Port (Bellview)

I was abit disapointed to see only one representative form WCC on Leagus.

road_high

I agree 100%.People have a right to defend their county which has a deep rooting for all Irish people,not just KK people.Just because they love GAA and want to remain part of KK doesnt mean they are automatically 'hicks'!!!

How would Waterford people like if we demanded a big chunk of their county for ourselves??Or if Tipp or Cork wanted the same in say Clonmel or Youghal towns which are also right on the borders??
They wudnt like it one bit and rightly so;same as all those people in South KK who oppose this...You really have to put urself in their shoes to understand it.

Aquos76

I live about 20 yards outside the Boundary, so technically I am in South Kilkenny. I am 100% in favour of what Waterford CC are proposing. Kilkenny Co Co don't give a toss about the residents of ferrybank.

I, only last year built an extension on to my home and I had to apply for PP to Kilkenny Co Co, which in itself was a nightmare. All my dealing had to be done through there planning department up in Kilkenny. When planning was eventually granted the imposed a fee of €3200 development charges on me, which I knew shag all about. They wanted me to pay for services which I already had paid for when I bought the house.

I got onto Waterford Corp about these charges and they informed me as it was only an extension onto an existing house, if I was in Waterford, these charges would not be applicable to me.

Anyway I refused to pay these outrages charges and after numerous letters to and fro I did however have to pay, but a reduced fee of €1050 or something like that. To be fair I don't think its only Kilkenny that charge this fee on extensions, but you have to question the legality of it. You are not actually getting anything back in return for it.

With regards to taxing my car. I have purchased 4 new cars in the time I am living in ferrybank and all 4 have been registered in Waterford. Why the hell would I want KK plates on my car when I earn my living in Waterford and do all my shopping in Waterford.

As for Dick Dowling, he cares about no one but himself. He is living down there in Newrath and you'd imagine that he would care, but he's not better that the rest of them. I actually got in touch with him about this charge and he did not want to know.

On the program, he came across as been totally anti Waterford, but hey does anyone actually know where he works and does his shopping and socialises. Yes you guessed it Waterford City.

So hopefully when this goes up in front of the minister, he will see through this petty GAA excuse and grant Waterford what they are looking for.

road_high

I suggest u move back into Waterford then if its that good!!!U choose to live in KK.I couldnt move over the border to another county and suddenly decide, oh, I don't like living under Laois Co Co. or whoever, and demand that it become part of KK overnight.

You are living in Co. KK, like it or not..They are loadsa of roads and places in my neighbouring counties of Laois and N Tipp where I could point that their County CO could do more but in all fairness its nothing got to do with me coz its in a different juristication!Same as south KK is part of Kilkenny.Im certain that KK county councils budget is stretched to the limit at the best of times.
And as you've pointed out, council charges apply in other counties as well.Do u honestly think life wud be so different under Waterford City council??
I sincerely doubt it somehow...
FF can expect heavy losses in Carlow KK next election if they let this madness through.As i've said already how would Waterford people like it if Tipp or Cork decided they wanted a chunk off them??
The sane solution to this would be to set up some kind of urban council for the Ferrybank area to handle planning etc, with input from both councils.It could work if people left their emotions out of it.

Bards

If people left their emotions out of it as you suggest, then the most logical thing to do would be to extend the City Boundary so that the city can expand in an even and not a lopsided way

road_high

Yes but that works on both sides of the argument.I sense some some kind of 'invader' like mentality from the Waterford side and its not very pleasant to see...
Nobody seems to say how they would feel if part of Waterford were to become part of another county?Only then could u understand how and why all KK people oppose this.
I think establishing some kind of urban council in the area would serve the area well, and answer all the claims of Waterford people who say that the area is negl;ected infrastructurally under Kilkenny..Or maybe its about more than just developing the infrastructure there??

Bards

if for example Carrick-on-suir on the south side became part of Tipp.. I and many others wouldn't see it as a problem and would see it as part of a normal and logical planning/administrative function for the benefit of Carrick-on-Suir as a whole.

But we are not talking about Carrick-on-suir etc we are talking about Waterford City growing. How it grows is up to the people and the dept of the environment. Do they want it to grow in an organised logical fashion creating a small compact city of critical mass aka the national spatial strategy....or....

...do they want a city that is not compact or organised with urban sprall two administrative areas creating bitterness and chaos with people living next to each other yet paying substantially different levies and charges. This is what it is about,not whether we want to play hurling for Kilkenny/Waterford.

it is the economic future for our children and their children's children. The sooner we all see this then the better it will for everybody inc Kilkenny people.

if you want better Infrastructure, schools, playing fields,libraries then vote for the bounday change

if however you want things to remain as they are then go right ahaead and block the boundary extension and let people in the corridors of power in Dublin laugh at all the infighting and let them sleep safe in the knowledge that the South East will never challenge their economic might.

Creating a third entity is just a red herring and will create even more problems than it will solve, more red tape, more waste, duplication of resources, etc.

road_high

Its good to know that Waterford people are so liberal about their own boundaries so...In that case they won't mind one bit if Clonmel town council etc. come knocking on their doors one day demanding part of their county as their own!!

I have been saying time and time again that every single person and authority do need to work together and lobby for their fair share of development.Only through proper roads,university,etc etc can the s East develop to its full potential (and I believe it can, it was once the most prosperous part of Ireland long before the Celtic Tiger).

But this will definitely not be achieved by one county annexing part of another for its own selfish needs unfortuanately.There is a real geniune fear in KK that if this boundary move gets through where will it all end?When will Waterord be satisfied?When they are up as far as Mullinavat or even Ballyhale?U can't argue with peoples gut feelings on this one.Another real fear is that if this allowed through, will New Ross and Carrick on Suir town councils suddenly see this an opportunity for them and make similar applications!

I would plead with both sides (councils) here to just sit down and discuss this a rational manner and have give and take on BOTH sides!!

Bards

mfitzy wrote:

Its good to know that Waterford people are so liberal about their own boundaries so...In that case they won't mind one bit if Clonmel town council etc. come knocking on their doors one day demanding part of their county as their own!!

I have been saying time and time again that every single person and authority do need to work together and lobby for their fair share of development.Only through proper roads,university,etc etc can the s East develop to its full potential (and I believe it can, it was once the most prosperous part of Ireland long before the Celtic Tiger).

But this will definitely not be achieved by one county annexing part of another for its own selfish needs unfortuanately.There is a real geniune fear in KK that if this boundary move gets through where will it all end?When will Waterord be satisfied?When they are up as far as Mullinavat or even Ballyhale?U can't argue with peoples gut feelings on this one.Another real fear is that if this allowed through, will New Ross and Carrick on Suir town councils suddenly see this an opportunity for them and make similar applications!

I would plead with both sides (councils) here to just sit down and discuss this a rational manner and have give and take on BOTH sides!!

If different councils lobby for "Their" share of development you will never create critical mass need for university etc.. all you will do is spread development too thinly and create a bit of everything everywhere but nothing substantial. Waterford needs the other counties in the South East as much as the South East needs Waterford, "the regional capital and gateway."

time and again I have been saying it that we need to look past the county boundaries that were put in place by the British Empire and create new ones that reflect the country we live in tooday. The Ireland of the 21st century bears no resemblance to the Ireland of the past.

If the bounday is extended we will have a city approaching 60,000 inhabitants enough of a critical mass to Demand University, Demand Better Roads,Rail Playing pitches, Demand Raditheraphy and all the other things that Glaway,Limerick get without having to beg.

What is there to fear from economic betterment?

road_high

So Waterford is being entirely selfless and this extension is for the betterment of the whole south east?Pull the other one, its about increased revenues for the city council at the end of the day.

I meant 'their' fair share as in the whole south east region, not just individual counties in the region against eachother.

Your concept of critical mass only centred on Waterford city would be a very hard pill for people distant from it such as in Carlow, North Wex and North KK.They would see it as everything being centred on one large urban centre;i.e. the real fear that hospital services would be entirely centerd on Waterford as envisaged by the Hanley report.What use would this be to some criticallty ill 50 miles away?

Same goes for jobs etc.

The reason Limerick and Galway have been so successful is down largely to their considerable clout;thats how it works in this country.You have political clout and influence at that cabinet table things get done.We are at last seeing some evidence of this through M Cullen (not someone I admire i.e. 50 million down the drain on e-voting) and he seems to be pushing through on the N9 and Waterfords bypass.

Bards

I reckon you have answered my point for me I reckon kilkenny people are ABW "Anybody But Waterford".. Govt are not going to create two three or four regional hospitals in the South East. to cater for Carlow,Kilkenny Tipp Wexford etc. Waterford is the gateway fact...get over it..

I am not replying to any more posts on this topic as I feel I have given a thourough economic argument as to why the boundary extension should go ahead without reverting to loosing moeny or the GAA. This is why we are not doing as well as Galway Limerick Cork etc.

road_high

Most definitely not 'ABW', not a term ive even heard before!!Seems a bit like paronia!!

Its not about creating regional hosps in each county;that would be ludricoius but all services cannot and should not be based in one single geographical area.There has to be give and take, espec in the s East where there are many towns of similiar size and population.

Of course u haven't had to revert to arguments about loosing money etc cos Waterford has everything to gain from this and we have everything to loose.
I love my county like all Irish people do and make no apologies whatsoever in defending its integrity!

Where did i mention the GAA- i dont even like hurling!!But it does mean a lot to some people and their views have to be taken on board too.

I never once disputed that Waterford is the main town in the s East. As such it should show maturity and leadership for the whole region and abandon its border plans.It will take hell of a lot more than than border extensions for us to catch up at the end of d day...End of.

Freddie59

mfitzy wrote:

Most definitely not 'ABW', not a term ive even heard before!!Seems a bit like paronia!!

Its not about creating regional hosps in each county;that would be ludricoius but all services cannot and should not be based in one single geographical area.There has to be give and take, espec in the s East where there are many towns of similiar size and population.

Of course u haven't had to revert to arguments about loosing money etc cos Waterford has everything to gain from this and we have everything to loose.
I love my county like all Irish people do and make no apologies whatsoever in defending its integrity!

Where did i mention the GAA- i dont even like hurling!!But it does mean a lot to some people and their views have to be taken on board too.

I never once disputed that Waterford is the main town in the s East. As such it should show maturity and leadership for the whole region and abandon its border plans.It will take hell of a lot more than than border extensions for us to catch up at the end of d day...End of.

Some facts:

1. South Kilkenny would be a wasteland were it not for Waterford City. It depends on the City for it's very existence in the form of all health, educational, and infrastructural services.

2. Waterford is not a 'main town' - it is the Regional capital. Elsewhere in the world a city is allowed to develop in a radial fashion - even in the US where it crosses STATE boundaries.

3. An extension is invevitable. It will happen (not this time but in the next ten years).

4. The primary argument put forward in Leargas was.....hurling. It showed the narrow-mindedness and short-sightedness of your county compatriots.
Dick Dowling v Mary Roche looked like 1930s v 21st century. A man who spent his life working in, and earning his living from, Waterford and it's citizens....and not a poitive word to say about the place (it's called biting the hand that feeds you).

5. There are no other 'towns' of similar size in the South East. Waterford is a City.

6. Kilkenny people came across as 'hicks' because of their backward looking obsession with the game of hurling. Their life revolves around it because their county is devoid of anything else.

Aquos76

Excellently put across points there Freddie.

Freddie59

Aquos76 wrote:

Excellently put across points there Freddie.

:cool:

road_high

Waterford is a regional capital no dispute but in terms of population it is not significant, even in an Irish context...Its little more than a large town, as are Kilkenny and Carlow.

U can resort to abusing KK over hurling etc; I don't particularly give a damn!!

The simple fatcs are that Co. Waterford has loads of land within its own boundaries it shud develop on instead of barging into our county and demanding to take over part of it.

The chances of this ridiculous boundary grab actually getting through cabinet are in fact very slim.

Anyway, I 'm sick and tired of this and have made the case for why this boundary change is a totally flawed non-runner and will inevitably fail.

End of story as far as i'm concerned

Freddie59

mfitzy wrote:

Waterford is a regional capital no dispute but in terms of population it is not significant, even in an Irish context...Its little more than a large town, as are Kilkenny and Carlow.

http://www.citypopulation.de/Ireland.html

The population of Kilkenny & Carlow combined is still short of the population of just Waterford City (and that was in 2002!). End of story.:D

Roanmore

Just a quick question on extending boundaries, is there a precedent for it. It would be interesting to see if it happened before and what people's attidues were like before hand and afterwards and what the reasons were for doing it.

AdMMM

mfitzy wrote:

Waterford is a regional capital no dispute but in terms of population it is not significant, even in an Irish context...Its little more than a large town, as are Kilkenny and Carlow.

U can resort to abusing KK over hurling etc; I don't particularly give a damn!!

The simple fatcs are that Co. Waterford has loads of land within its own boundaries it shud develop on instead of barging into our county and demanding to take over part of it.

The chances of this ridiculous boundary grab actually getting through cabinet are in fact very slim.

Anyway, I 'm sick and tired of this and have made the case for why this boundary change is a totally flawed non-runner and will inevitably fail.

End of story as far as i'm concerned

Please, that's not how demographics works. There may be a boundary there but there's a natural tendancy for urban areas to develop outwards (think it's called urban sprawl) before it will develop upwards. We aren't just suddenly deciding to expand into Kilkenny because we want to take over Kilkenny, we're doing it because we need that land to continue developing into the future.

Dac51

mfitzy wrote:

The reason Limerick and Galway have been so successful is down largely to their considerable clout;thats how it works in this country.You have political clout and influence at that cabinet table things get done.

The reason Limerick and Galway have been so successful is down largely to the fact that their regions unify behind their regional capitals and don't bitch and moan because their towns are getting this or that.

That is the reason why the South East region is in such dire straits. Fact.

If we as a region spoke with once voice and accepted Waterford as the regional capital and gateway then you would see improvements in infrastucture etc. Fact.

fricatus

I'm from Waterford, living in Dublin, but making firm plans to move home soon, which has meant that I've been househunting for the past couple of months. I'm broadly in favour of the boundary extension, but there is one big question that I think has not been discussed thoroughly enough.

Does it really make sense to develop Ferrybank? There is only one bridge, and the second one being built will not be ready for about three more years, and even then it will not really be practical to use it for commuting on account of the toll that will be levied.

Every time I looked at a house in Ferrybank, this is what I thought. The houses were very nice, the locations likewise. And the prices were lower than elsewhere in the city. However, the area is just not well connected to the rest of the city and this had an effect on my final decision.

Any further development of Ferrybank will just exacerbate traffic at Rice Bridge. Given that areas south of the river have better connections to the main destination areas of the city (industrial estate, hospital, WIT, city centre), doesn't it make more sense to keep development in these areas?