Julesie wrote: Its seems to be a common misconception that the only solution to the third world problem is for us to give money from our own pockets in some vain attempt to make things better. This is naive in the extreme. The third world is the way it is for a multitude of reasons such as but not limited to:Corrupt Government Regimes Hostile/Violent enviorment (civil war etc.) Inhospitable climate (drought etc.) Low population density Poor levels of infrastructure Poor standard of education/literacy amongst adults Native cultures at odds with western "capatalist" ideals Unfavourable trade conditions with the first world These are just some of the reasons why Africa isnt going to have an economy that functions like ours in the near future. One of the main contributing factors for the above "problems" is Africas history of colonisation by european countries such as (England, France, Holland etc.) For centuries these countries were just treated like distant outposts of a forgotten empire with little or no interest or investment placed in them. That means that while the first world prospered during industrial revolutions this never reached Africa. Most of the above problems wont be solved by a simple hand out but rather fundamental changes in the way an entire continent operates. Thats why giving money to Concern shouldnt make you feel like you are solving world poverty in fact in some ways it perpetuates it. To be honest im not sure it could be solved or if it is even "our" place to take on that task. Anyway rant over.
shroomfox wrote: First off, not that I'm a fan and I'd probably smack her in the face if I ever met her...but Mariah Carey didn't say that. Secondly, anybody who doesn't think that third world countries don't deserve help or can "sort it out themselves" needs their head examined. The reason they're all ****ed at the moment is because of large First world economies (like the US and the EU) using protectionist policies to look after their own enterprises and exploiting third world markets in favour of first world homegrown business. Thirdly, fair enough if you don't care about the third world. Charity doesn't do much: it's all about trade and building third world business. But first world economies have a moral obligation to help simply because they're able to help. If you're walking along a cliff side and see a guy hanging off the edge who needs your help, it's your fault if he dies; simply because you're aware that he needs your help and you've the ability to give it.
ionapaul wrote: I think we'll agree to disagree (this is directed to Archeron). Yes, I am quite able to make a sweeping generalisation based on established evolutionary theory! Yes, I am happy telling a whole range of people why they do what they do, based on evolutionary theory. If you feel the theory is false or does not apply in your case, feel free to present evidence to the contrary. I applaud those who help the needy, who have compassion and empathy for those less fortunate than themselves. But they are doing it, consiously or subconsiously, for ultimately 'self serving' reasons.
degsy wrote: Nice one for researching the Mariah Carey thing,i take it you dont have a girlfriend?
shroomfox wrote: Cutting! As for the rest of your post, here's an idea: go read a book before you try and make up opinions on subjects you don't know anything about. Try Globalisation and its Discontents by Joseph Stiglitz. You might learn something.
Degsy wrote: And i'm still willing to bet that you dont have a girlfriend.
ronbyrne2005 wrote: the charity starts at home argument is bull. anyone living in this country has enough chances to be helped etc by government etc. millions die every year of lack of food water and simple medicines around the world while greedy people in the west stuff themselves silly and worry about crass materialistic things and profit from the exploitation of 3rd world people by western companies and individuals,yes corrupt leaders cause problems in 3rd world but we support them and give them weapons etc.we should all feel guilty,we were lucky to be born in a western world which grew rich on the backs of the poor 3rd world countries,a baby born in africa is no less important than the one lucky enough to be born in west.shame on all of us.
MrJoeSoap wrote: What the **** does that have to do with anything? Jesus Christ people are ignorant. As for the "look after our own people first" argument, its so xenophobic it makes me sick. What difference does it make whether a person was born on this island or another? Should we only look after people because they had the good fortune to be born into our great healthcare system (regardless of the apparent "state" it is in now)? If ignorance is bliss, then After Hours is full of smiles. I can hardly believe some of the nonsense I'm reading here. We're all so cosy in our little semi-d's that we couldn't give two flying ****s about people who barely have enough money to survive.
Degsy wrote: Nice one for researching the Mariah Carey thing,i take it you dont have a girlfriend? Secondly,there's a differnce between some fool hanging off a cliff and some fool badgering you for money not to jump.Where's all the money we gave them for LiveAid?Probably into that thieving scumbag Bob Geldof's pockets.Twenty years (and longer) we've been helping out these places and none of them have sorted themselves out..take away the tit and they'll soon stop sucking.
Degsy wrote: Couple of thing worth mentioning.I worked for the hanley cetnre for a year,our flat rate was 40% of the take,my supervisor got 20% of that and HIS boss got between 10-20% of the remaining ctach.5% went to print the crads and the remaining 5% went to the charity.Its an utter scam,all those "charities" are on the make,they've got well paid staff and expensive premises.Give them nowt. If you dont want to sound like a total bastard by saying no or whatever just say "i've a direct debit" it does wonders and they will actually say thatnk you!!
Raiser wrote: Interesting Degsy, found this post of yours:http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51173905&postcount=51 Post can be found here:http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=51173905#post51173905 What was that you said about thieving scumbags? Did it really take you a whole entire year, as in 52 weeks, or 365 days to realise that you were pocketing 40% of every contribution that decent people thought was going to the less fortunate - when it fact it was being spent on good old Degsy. You're making me queasy, its not your warped views, skewed metrics, inverted value system or general distastefullness - I just get vertigo when peering that far downwards to the bottomfeeders busily doggy-paddling around in the filth and mire pooled at the very base of our society. Raiser
MrJoeSoap wrote: I fully intend on taking my "precious" time to do some volunteer work in countries affected by poverty, if thats what you mean. As for Bono and Bob Geldof... great examples...
azezil wrote: What gets my goat is people saying 'we owe them, we stole all their natural resources' things like that, did Ireland as a nation do this? I think not, yet we give millions every year! I really don't see why, I'll give to charities that help our own people, when a child doesn't go hungry in our country, I'll give to others.
onemanband wrote: Let's play a game. No one else respond to this thread after this contribution. We can all then sit back and hope that Degsy won't post any more utter ****e on this topic. I give my word that if this happens, I'll donate a grand to Concern!!!!
Degsy wrote: I'm just willing to bet that this heroic action won't involve the people of your own country. I'd have thought that yes,Bob and Bono WERE great examples of the sort of hypocrisy that's endemic in our society..people who pontificate from a height about the state of the third world yet retain vast sums of wealth themselves.
Degsy wrote: And pay 800 euro of that into the admin's pocket?Go ahead.
The Doktor wrote: Just think about what you have said…. You don’t care…not that you don’t give to charity, not that you don’t want to help….YOU DON’T CARE.. Do you not care about these people too? These are people who have been killed at the hands of other people, just like in Africa. 9,000,000-11,000,000 Poles, Jews, Russians, Communists, Homosexuals, Mentally ill, Gypsies, Disabled, Intelligentsia, Jehovah`s Witnesses, Clergy, Trade Unionists, Political Activists murdered by the Nazis estimated 1,400,000 Armenians murdered in the Ottoman empire AT LEAST 25,000,000 Military dead during ww2 (Combined, US, UK, USSR, German…etc etc) about 150,000 dead in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the year after the US dropped fat man and little boy. 180,000 civilians killed in Japan from US fire bombing 500,000 Children and 500,000 adults dead due to sanctions against Iraq nearly 2,500 US soldiers and 34,000 Iraqi civilians killed in the current Iraq war 1,000,000 people killed in Iran/Iraq war 1,000,000 died in the Mexican revolution 1,700,000 killed in the vietnam war 1,400,000 dead in civil war in Ethiopia At least 1,600,000 killed by the Khmer Rouge At least 20,000 soviet and 1,000,000 Afghan/Mujahideen in the Soviet Afghan war 20,000,000 killed during Stalins regime 40,000,000 killed during Mao Tse-Tungs regime in China The above figures are lowest estimations I haven`t given figure for dead due to man made famine, disease etc in Africa.. but we know its millions too Please, just look at the numbers.. and think about what you are saying
failsafe wrote: And 200 to help build a hospital... it's a hell of a lot more than you've ever done.
failsafe wrote: And yet you argue about people that give loads to charity and boast about it. You claim it's a political issue that the "minister for foreign affairs, or whoever" should deal with, but then when Bono tries to stir political movements, you criticize him for living in a nice house and driving a nice car. :rolleyes:
Degsy wrote: A NICE house?A NICE car?The man is a multi,multi millionaire,he doesnt pay any taxes,he doesnt contribute a damn thing to the poor of THIS country but he's on a crusade to save everybody else?He's a hypocrite plain and simple.
Bob the Seducer wrote: You forgot one:800,000+ dead as a result of Irish Famine
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