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Blueface HELL

unkel

Mainly based on advice here, I finally went VOIP and got rid of the Eircom landline

Got the €99 Blueface deal last December including the Netgear TA612V. Setup the hardware (NTL modem -> Netgear TA612V -> Panasonic KX-TCD952EB Dect phone) and it worked - I made my first Blueface VOIP call*

* My setup is a little bit more complex as I am running a wireless router / access point as well. All my below problems remained with the above setup though, so with my router not plugged in and no internet connection to any PC, wireless or wired!

My ISP is NTL and I'm on the max package (3000 kbps down, 300 kbps up). My internet connection is rock solid - always have full download and upload speeds any time I tried / tested it

Now, I'm a VOIP n00b, so please be gentle

The voice quality was extremely poor from the start though. On almost all calls it seems to be one-way only as in as long as one person speaks and shuts up for about a second before the other person speaks it seems ok

There is massive "call chop" and "jitter" as I'm told these are the official words for the crap voice quality of the calls

Many calls go straight to voice mail, although I have verified that the phone was not used at that time. Many voice mails are poor quality or totally inaudible

My Dect phone was fine with analogue (Eircom calls). It doesn't matter how far the handset is from the base station, the quality of the line is equally poor. I also tried setting all the hardware up connected to 3 different NTL points within the house with no difference

Obviously I have contacted Blueface with my troubles. Initially they responded quickly and sent me some nice looking graphics analysing some calls and some general tips

It quickly deteriorated after that with the response to my last email taking over three weeks :mad:

They are also fobbing me off with repeating stuff like this although I've repeatedly told them the problems remain when NO router / access point / PC is connected to the Blueface router:

Aaron in Blueface wrote:

It looks like you do have some other network activity on your link while your calls are in progress that is affecting them. The best way to check this is to unplug everything from your network except the phone and see if your call quality improves.

Applications such as peer-to-peer programs and any other streaming type ones can have a detrimental affect on your call quality. Virus activity is alos often very network intensive so it would be worthwhile running a virus checker on your PC to make sure it is clean.

Aaron in Blueface wrote:

- NTL Connection: Blue Face service reported as unusable. Cause was PC on network was infected with a virus that was saturating network bandwidth.

- NTL Connection: Poor call quality reported. Cause was PC running 100 simultaneous upstream connections to a popular peer-to-peer program.

Aaron in Blueface wrote:

I expect the cause of your issue is still something local to your network and experimentation with different set ups may help find the problem, a different phone or router for instance.

Now don't get me wrong here, I would really like VOIP to work for me. I would really like Blueface to work for me. I even like the new geographical number Blueface assigned to me

But being fobbed off is not nice. I asked specifically for any settings on the router I might try, but they ignored those

Anyone any suggestions? I know how to log in to the Netgear Router. I have not made any changes yet

Your help is much appreciated folks!!

Under pressure from the better half to give it up and get re-connected to Eircom. We're using the mobiles all the time now completely defeating the purpose of moving to VOIP. Surely you don't want me to do that?

Sorry for being long-winded

edit: tried to get rid of the word "HELL" in the title but it no longer lets me. Reason for the attempted edit is that the quality of my Blueface calls has improved dramatically after some simple changes to the Blueface router settings

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aaronc

unkel wrote:

haven't a clue what you are talking about here. Is this something I need to check / uncheck on the router? As said, the only settings I've changed on the router are:

1. enable all four codecs (instead of the two enabled as default)
2. change the preferred codec

On the same page you made those changes there is a checkbox with the word VAD next to it. If it's ticked it should be unticked.

Aaron

unkel

aaronc wrote:

checkbox with the word VAD next to it. If it's ticked it should be unticked.

It was ticked as default! Unticked it just now, thanks Aaron

shabbyroad

on the Linksys PAP-2 is this called "Silence Supp Enable:" ??

aaronc

shabbyroad wrote:

on the Linksys PAP-2 is this called "Silence Supp Enable:" ??

Yes. I'd recommend that be disabled as well.

Aaron

GerardKeating

aaronc wrote:

On the same page you made those changes there is a checkbox with the word VAD next to it. If it's ticked it should be unticked.

Aaron,

Where is this setting on the WRT54GP2 ?

thanks

aaronc

GerardKeating wrote:

Where is this setting on the WRT54GP2 ?

On the http://192.168.15.1/Voice_adminPage.htm page choose Line 1 (or 2 depending on which phone socket you are using) and it's two thirds of the way down. it's called "Silence Supp Enable" and unlike on the Netgears is disabled by default. If you haven't switched it on yourself then it will already be off.

Aaron

jimmycrackcorm

Just to add to the debate, I've just signed up for an account. At the moment I'm only trying to use it for faxing with which I have problems but get good responses from support. I'm planning to migrate my landline to Blueface which is the logic behind this move. I'm not actually bothered if some calls won't get through as long as they go to voice or mobile. This is because we mostly use mobiles and the landline is there simply for historical reasons.

Our landline bill with UTV internet was generally about €7 on average for calls.
I've just switched my phone back to Eircom from UTV to facilitate the number transfer process from the 6th of January and only received my first bill today for €127.

I look forward to rupping up my landline.

shabbyroad

cheers Aaron.

FWIW I know the thread (at first) didn't appear to reflect well on blueface but it has been helpful to me as an existing customer to understand what can go wrong and what can be done to fix things.

Unlike the trains I think VOIP is getting there.

Mod_Man

Originally when I connected the Netgear TA612V to a NTL 1Mb/100Kb connection, people I phoned said I was choppy and could not hear me. I tried the Blueface echo test by phoning 301 and I could not hear an echo just some clippy noise. The default settings on the ATA were G711.u 30ms with all the supported codecs selected. I changed it to G711.u @20mS and only checked the G711.mu supported codec and its been working perfectly ever since..
I don't think the QoS on this Device will work with the NTL 1Mb connection as the minimum setting allowed by the router is 128Kbits/sec and NTL is only 100Kbits/sec so it will give 64Kbits of your bandwidth to your PC and only leave 34Kbits/sec for voip.. So it will only work if you use a codec that uses less than 34Kb/s. I will try tweaking it a bit more to see what other codecs work. If banwidth is low its nice to have the option of using the low bandwidth codecs.

d8player

Hi,

I am also a new subscriber to Blueface. I am subscribed to NTL's 2Mb offering. I got the Netgear TA612v ATA. Initially I found that the line quality was patchy at best and there was a bad echo (especially on incoming calls). I changed preferred codec to G729ab@20ms which made the outgoing calls better on my end but the people on the other side were reporting that the sound was very patchy (that it was breaking up). Then today after reading mod_man's comment I tried changing the prefered codec to G711.u @20mS and only checked the G711.mu supported codec. This made no difference. I am quite concerned about continuing with Blueface as I have tried the steps that have worked for others and I am still not getting a good line quality. I really really would love to drop eircom but I can't do it if the quality with voip is not as good.

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated. I really love what Blueface are doing to the market and want to be part of it.

Thanks,
D8Player

Blaster99

Echo is often because of bad latency. What's your connection like generally? As I might have noted elsewhere, VoIP is flakey. It seems to work well for NTL users generally, though. I think NTL might be going through an upgrade period now so their network is possibly not its usual self.

Before giving up on the world, I would try a few other VoIP providers. Broadtalk offers an geographical number with no monthly commitment, for instance.

d8player

Hi Blaster

Any idea how long this network upgrading is gonna take?

Thanks,

paulm17781

Hi D8player, have you contacted Blueface? Their support is excellent.

The NTL upgrade is on going, hopefully the unreliability will go away after April 1st.

msmx5

Has anyone on NTL noticed that VOIP quality (Blueface) has been diabolical over the past few days... basically since Thursday?

I'm using the G729 codec, but seem to be getting significant packet loss leading to very poor uplink voice quality.

I know thay are upgrading customers speeds at the moment (mine hasn't been upgraded yet), I hope this isn't representative of whats to come.

I'll be testing out a freespeech.ie VOIP a/c later to try and confirm its NTL rather thank Blueface.

Mod_Man

Ye noticed its been a bit patchy today..

msmx5 wrote:

Has anyone on NTL noticed that VOIP quality (Blueface) has been diabolical over the past few days... basically since Thursday?

I'm using the G729 codec, but seem to be getting significant packet loss leading to very poor uplink voice quality.

I know thay are upgrading customers speeds at the moment (mine hasn't been upgraded yet), I hope this isn't representative of whats to come.

I'll be testing out a freespeech.ie VOIP a/c later to try and confirm its NTL rather thank Blueface.

dubadubdub

Mod_Man wrote:

Ye noticed its been a bit patchy today..

Yep. Just got off a call....terrible quality. Very close to unusable. I have to say that I'm now starting to have doubts about dumping the eircom line:mad:

Using NTL Mb BB.

fatherdougalmag

I'm on NTL 2Mbps service and called Australia yesterday. No problems at all.

Mod_Man

dubadubdub wrote:

Yep. Just got off a call....terrible quality. Very close to unusable. I have to say that I'm now starting to have doubts about dumping the eircom line:mad:

Using NTL Mb BB.

Try disconnecting your PC from the router and dial 301 the Blueface echo test.

Blaster99

I'm not using NTL and I'm getting intermittent problems too and it's very likely to do with Blueface as I'm not getting packet loss worth considering, my jitter is below 10ms, and whenever I use Smart076 it's perfect. Most calls are ok, but some have been crap with lots of breakups. Would the problems be primarily with local/national calls by any chance?

dubadubdub

Mod_Man wrote:

Try disconnecting your PC from the router and dial 301 the Blueface echo test.

Cheers, I'll try that. What should I hear?

dubadubdub

dubadubdub wrote:

Cheers, I'll try that. What should I hear?

Oh. an echo:D

Tried it, seemed OK.

Jaden

I'm on the Blueface business package, suning it as a replacement for our PRI. IAX trunk from my Asterisk server to Blueface. Call quality is really suffering. Called them and got voicemail (at 11.30am?). Appears to be a widespread issue at the moment.

probe

Blaster99 wrote:

I'm not using NTL and I'm getting intermittent problems too and it's very likely to do with Blueface as I'm not getting packet loss worth considering, my jitter is below 10ms, and whenever I use Smart076 it's perfect. Most calls are ok, but some have been crap with lots of breakups. Would the problems be primarily with local/national calls by any chance?

One wonders if the better performance of Smart076 has something to do with their INEX peering arrangements?

https://www.inex.ie/technical/peeringmatrix

Most of the VoIP complaints seem to come from people using Blueface VoIP and/or NTL as ISP - neither of whom seem to have good peering connectivity at INEX. Morgan Stanley seem to be still running NTL's Irish operations as if they were a British company.

It is a pity that INEX doesn't work as one big switching entity connecting each participant to every other.

probe

WillieFlynn

probe wrote:

Most of the VoIP complaints seem to come from people using Blueface VoIP and/or NTL as ISP - neither of whom seem to have good peering connectivity at INEX.

Blueface have just joined INEX in the last few weeks, so their peering arrangements should increase quickly. However that is dependent on the ISPs agreening to peer with them........ So may be it might be worth writing to your ISP requesting that the peer with Blueface.

The fact that traffic goes outside of ireland isn't necesserally a problem, all my VoIP traffic (using netsource) goes via London, my brother is using blueface from Finland with no problems and while not as good it is still usable from Houston, Texas.

msmx5

The diabolical call quality I referred to seems to have improved as of yesterday (Tuesday 21st). I'm not 100% positive but I believe this is more down to my NTL connection improving rather than anything directly related to Blueface. (BTW, blaster99, all calls were local or national, I didn't try any mobile or international calls. The uplink quality was much worse than the downlink & I before you ask there was no other network activity)

I did also try out a freespeech.ie a/c on Monday and it also suffered similar, but not quite as bad degradation as Blueface which would point the finger of blame more towards NTL. I guess their normally excellent network is undergoing a bit of upheaval as they upgrade to higher speeds (my line has not yet been upgraded).

....

Jaden, I am also waiting on a response to a support mail sent to Blueface. Their speedy and efficient response record is taking a bit of a hit at the moment. They definitely have a lot of customer goodwill (me included) partially due to their excellent, honest and helpful support responses, I would hate to see that change!

probe

WillieFlynn wrote:

Blueface have just joined INEX in the last few weeks, so their peering arrangements should increase quickly. However that is dependent on the ISPs agreening to peer with them........ So may be it might be worth writing to your ISP requesting that the peer with Blueface.

The fact that traffic goes outside of ireland isn't necesserally a problem, all my VoIP traffic (using netsource) goes via London, my brother is using blueface from Finland with no problems and while not as good it is still usable from Houston, Texas.

I use Smart076 (and other) VoIP providers on several continental broadband providers' networks (who have no peering with INEX) and the sound quality remains excellent. It is the old story of a chain is as strong as its weakest link and if each link is good you will get excellent VoIP sound quality. It seems to me that if you are looking around for a workable VoIP provider+ISP combination, the fact that they have some peering arrangement is a helpful starting point.

probe

irlkersten

Probably not much help to you, but I'm using Magnet's Entertainment Intro 4mb connection for broadband and using blueface. Not a single problem so far. Am very happy that I'm not longer with eircom. Best decision I've ever made, although it took me a full 6 months to pluck up the currage. My dad uses blueface with an syslink router/ATA and sometimes has problems, but he's using some dodgy wireless 0.5mb broadband with a contention of 32:1.
I have an Allnet SIP phone from marxcomputers.ie and havent had any dodgy phone calls yet. Mind you, that phone has a built in switch with QoS, so it prioritises voice traffic over other traffic. That might be the reason. All in all, magnet, blueface and that phone together seem to work miricals for me.

greetz
tim

TempestSabre

My Blueface was poor on the NTL 1MB but has improved since I upped it to 2MB. I think the problem I have is inconsistent latency on my NTL. MY NTL has always been patchy. One second its fine, the next next it spikes badly. My experience of Blueface is mixed. Granted its very cheap but the line quality varies from ok to unsusable and often I have problems where the phone seems to be engaged and calls go to voicebox even when we are not using it. I didn't get rid my eircom line yet, so I'm 50/50 which I'll keep.

redhander

hi all

anybody had experience with no audio on Blueface? (netgear TA612V) the phone im calling rings ok and i can dial into the blueface ata number from outside and it also rings but zero audio..i cant even get echo if i call their echo server (301?)

Im using a standard ‘analogue’ telephone handset plugged into the ata – should this matter? (not a dect handset)

Codec in use is g.711 u-law @30ms – is this correct?

Internet access works no problem plugging into ta612v lan port

all help gratefully accepted

msmx5

Is your ATA behind any other network devices? It sounds like some ports may not be open. What ISP do you use?