nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Is Java hard to learn?

py2006

Hi guys,

A quick simple question. I have no programming experience other than perhaps HTML which isn't really the same thing.

I am considering doing a course in Java to give me a bit of a head start if I decide to do comp degree next sept!

How difficult is it to pick up a programming language like Java? and is it the best one to be working on at the moment as far as jobs go?

Thanks

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

py2006

:v:

aidan_walsh wrote:

The guy is having enough of a hard time trying to make up his mind. I was trying to keep it simple without bogging him down in irrelevant details...

Cheers buddy!

aidan_walsh

bpmurray wrote:

No, it's not. Eclipse is a platform. It's most common incarnation is as a development environment. However, the RCP illustrates that it really isn't just that. In fact, IBM's Workplace uses Eclipse as the rich client and that doesn't look at all like the usual IDE we all know and love or hate.

The guy is having enough of a hard time trying to make up his mind. I was trying to keep it simple without bogging him down in irrelevant details...

dvdfan

Thanks Lads, i bougt dreamweaver because it was the program we used during the course over the period of a couple of months. Im also a bit too impulsive and I also intended to try freelance but ive found it too competitive. Too many designers from india etc willing to do design for little or nothing which forces me and others into charging really cheap rates and thus it just wasnt feasible for the time put in.

Someone asked where i dont the course. www.iact.ie based in Dublin, nice people but i wonder why they didnt teach me asp and vbscript instead of the exstinct server side javascript although i cant compare javascript i find it very useful and was very easy to pick up.

kyote00

We'll all need that psychiatrist. before this thread finishes....

py2006

dvdfan wrote:

Just a quick few questions. Ive done a course on asp and server side javascript and after completing it i can design a full ecommerce website with some great functions.

Where did you do this course? I wanna learn ASP too or ASP.net (whichever)

Also, why did you buy Dreamweaver???? You could have just got a trial version. Most people who are just using it for training purposes borrow a copy from a friend! But its admirable that you paid up for it as I presume you intend going freelance!

rsynnott

dvdfan wrote:

Also after completing my course ive now found out that for one vbscript is the language i should have been taught instead of serverside javascript because it is more widely used ...

It is also, however, rather schizophrenic and would have damaged your ability to learn other languages properly... It is, in any case, very easy. If you want to, you could pick it up very quickly.

So can someone point out what the different languages will give you the ability to do in examples, does java let you build games or complicated calculators that can be open on your desktop instead of the internet, what languages help you build online games like snooker and card games and fantasy games.

Java will let you write just about everything non-kernel related.

Lastly when i done my course i needed to fork out a grand to buy dreamweaver as this was an essential tool, what can you expect to fork out to make the proper use of the other languages and also how much would you pay for a course to learn the applicable language???

Thanks

Sun's JDK is free, and you should probably be able to learn java from this: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/ , also free. Incidentally, is Dreamweaver really an essential tool?

dvdfan

Just a quick few questions. Ive done a course on asp and server side javascript and after completing it i can design a full ecommerce website with some great functions. So although i struggle sometimes writing efficent code and sometimes take the long way not making proper use of loops and such i still get the functions and codes to work and im constantly improving by altering existing codes and although i cant always write the code out of my head i can usually alter a similar code to work for what i want to do or merge several codes. Would i find it difficult making the transition into languages such as c++ and java??

Also after completing my course ive now found out that for one vbscript is the language i should have been taught instead of serverside javascript because it is more widely used and easier to find info and solutions on the internet about however ive yet to find something that cant be achieved using server side javascript instead of vbscript with asp. Anywho as you know asp, serverside javascript and web design all get you jobs in the web design and eccommerce industry, but in truth unless you have alot of experience you wont find a job easily with just those 3 skills as ive found out. So can someone point out what the different languages will give you the ability to do in examples, does java let you build games or complicated calculators that can be open on your desktop instead of the internet, what languages help you build online games like snooker and card games and fantasy games.

Is there much demand for doing this work freelance, or working from home or even abroad for a company. I tried web design freelance and theres just so much competition.

Lastly when i done my course i needed to fork out a grand to buy dreamweaver as this was an essential tool, what can you expect to fork out to make the proper use of the other languages and also how much would you pay for a course to learn the applicable language???

Thanks

bpmurray

rsynnott wrote:

Does it have a built-in psychiatrist? No, it does not.

Well, that says it all about EMACS and Lisp. Eclipse doesn't need an psychiatrist.

rsynnott

bpmurray wrote:

Troll!

Of course, you're kidding - EMACS could never even approximate the power of Eclipse. It's already pretty much the de facto standard for any Java/J2EE tooling, way, way beyond EMACS's abilities.

Does it have a built-in psychiatrist? No, it does not.

bpmurray wrote:

And with close to 30 years experience in the industry with all sorts of languages, give me Java over Lisp any day!

Really? Goodness.

bpmurray

rsynnott wrote:

Eclipse has ambitions to be the next EMACS, albeit written in a far less nice language.

Troll!

Of course, you're kidding - EMACS could never even approximate the power of Eclipse. It's already pretty much the de facto standard for any Java/J2EE tooling, way, way beyond EMACS's abilities.

And with close to 30 years experience in the industry with all sorts of languages, give me Java over Lisp any day!

rsynnott

bpmurray wrote:

No, it's not. Eclipse is a platform. It's most common incarnation is as a development environment. However, the RCP illustrates that it really isn't just that. In fact, IBM's Workplace uses Eclipse as the rich client and that doesn't look at all like the usual IDE we all know and love or hate.

Eclipse has ambitions to be the next EMACS, albeit written in a far less nice language.

bpmurray

aidan_walsh wrote:

...
Eclipse is a program that is used to write Java applications in. It has a lot of features that allow programmers to work effeciently, but a program like this isn't the best starting point for a beginner.
...

No, it's not. Eclipse is a platform. It's most common incarnation is as a development environment. However, the RCP illustrates that it really isn't just that. In fact, IBM's Workplace uses Eclipse as the rich client and that doesn't look at all like the usual IDE we all know and love or hate.

kyote00

py2006 wrote:

Thanks for that, they look kinda out of date though?

They are a few years out of date but probably ok for learning the basics - but they are also free !

ARGINITE

If you want to learn do the following:
Download the propper Jdk: JDK.
Download what ever ide you want to use if any: Intellijidea

The use the following to get started: Java tutorial.

MrScruff

O Reilly books are your best bet IMHO.

http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/java-ent/

py2006

kyote00 wrote:

some free Java books here.

http://teaching.gent.ie/bruceeckel/

Thanks for that, they look kinda out of date though?

kyote00

some free Java books here.

http://teaching.gent.ie/bruceeckel/

bambam

If you want to learn java using an IDE, there is a lot of talk about BlueJ. It's a IDE specifically designed to aid people learning Java.

http://www.bluej.org/

kyote00

definately dont be scared to try. Its the only way to learn. Once you start, you will find it moved along easily (either with command lines or eclipse) ---- but DO START.

And definately dont be put off doing something by advice elicited on a online board....

For the real inside deal, Go talk to the CS dept at Blanch and see what they have to say (ask them if the use Eclipse

), not sure if you are working, perhaps your company will financially support you too.

One thing I personally have found is that its a lot easier to learn when you are in a class of like or similar minded people and not ploughing a furrow on your own.

As you will find with Java, there are many ways to accomplish the same thing, the 'advice' so far in this thread is that there are two ways to learn:
- one using the mimumim set of tools to allow you to focus on the language
- one using a development enviroment to do the same

Now you have choices, thats good !

rsynnott

kyote00 wrote:

BTW: How do all you textpad users debug your Java programs ?

Er, jdb (part of the Sun SDK)? Have you used a text interface debugger? You really should give it a try; I find them easier than the GUI ones to use...

Our college (TCD) never attempted to force editors or IDEs on us, fortunately. For smallish java things, I tend to use EMACS, for larger ones, Eclipse.

kyote00 wrote:

Imagine been able to run your program line by line, check whats variables are set and are not...
Colour coded editor so that you can see whats a reserved word, whats a variable. Tabbed windows so that you dont have the 'window blitz' problem if browsing several files.

The person learning should be setting classpaths and so on themselves. It'll help them see what they're actually doing.

Any decent text editor has syntax highlighting, auto-indent, and probably autocomplete.

And, again, are you aware of the existence of command-line debuggers?

kyote00 wrote:

You can also move projects to Mac or Linux

What has Eclipse got to do with that?

And to the OP, don't be scared by all of this. Java is easy. You may want to take a look at http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/; it's free and quite good.

py2006

Not even sure if I will do it at all now! You have all scared the bejesus out of me!

I am strongly considering a degree in Computing in Blanchardstown which should cover Java.

I might try and get the basics into my thick skull before hand though.

kyote00

I think I will leave the last word with py2006 as I suspect the arguments above are not really helping him.

py2006: Good luck with your Java learning

a_w: Don't spend to long in textpad and on the command line, it will wreck you head eventually.

For me, I will stick with eclipse

py2006

Thanks! I guess alot of this will make alot more sense when I actually sit in front of it and start learning.

aidan_walsh

kyote00 wrote:

Eclipse removes one of the biggest headaches newbies have such as setting the classpath,

A seconds work. It might take a bit of getting used to having to remember to do it

kyote00 wrote:

Colour coded editor so that you can see whats a reserved word, whats a variable. Tabbed windows so that you dont have the 'window blitz' problem if browsing several files.

There are advanced text editors that will do all that for you, and they even do indenting too...

kyote00 wrote:

helping with solutions to common compiler errors, and helping understand how the program executes using the debugger.

Read the stacktraces, and documentation. Use Google if you're still stuck.

kyote00 wrote:

We are trying to have him focus on learning the language.

kyote00 wrote:

You appear to have missed the point of Eclipse. It hides the environment and focuses on the application under development -- that one of the main tenets of the eclipse project.

Make up your mind.

kyote00 wrote:

It hides the environment and focuses on the application under development

But he doesn't want to write applications, does he? He wants to learn Java.

I know what Eclipse is for, I know what its like, I know the advantages, and the disadvantages. I work with it, and have with several other IDEs in the past, and I can tell you that an IDE is not the place for a beginner programmer. Hell, any half decent programmer should be able to work perfectly well without an IDE.

kyote00 wrote:

You can also move projects to Mac or Linux

You're thinking way, way too far ahead here. Come back a little...

py206 wrote:

What exactly is eclipse?

Eclipse is a program that is used to write Java applications in. It has a lot of features that allow programmers to work effeciently, but a program like this isn't the best starting point for a beginner.

Really nothing you need to worry about at the moment.

kyote00

Its an integrated development environment that will enable you to work on learning Java and not have to struggle with command line options for the compiler, classpath settings. (IMHO)

Eclipse sorts your work into projects, each project has an editor that will allow you to see your code in a language aware window (colour coded and hints).

You can step through the execution of your program line by line, stop it at a given point and see what it happening.

You will need to invest some time upfront to learn about the project structure it uses --- this normally take not longer than a 1/2 day and will set you for a much more productive attempt to learn Java

py2006

kyote00 wrote:

I know I shouldnt but there so much bad advice given, I cant help myself......

1) textpad issue.
Explain to me how textpad will use make him a better programmers ?

2) Eclipse introduces another environment........
We are trying to have him focus on learning the language. Eclipse removes one of the biggest headaches newbies have:

What exactly is eclipse?

kyote00

I know I shouldnt but there so much bad advice given, I cant help myself......

1) textpad issue.
Explain to me how textpad will use make him a better programmers ?

2) Eclipse introduces another environment........
We are trying to have him focus on learning the language. Eclipse removes one of the biggest headaches newbies have such as setting the classpath,
helping with solutions to common compiler errors, and helping understand how the program executes using the debugger. Imagine been able to run your program line by line, check whats variables are set and are not...
Colour coded editor so that you can see whats a reserved word, whats a variable. Tabbed windows so that you dont have the 'window blitz' problem if browsing several files.

3) And exclusively using the command line compiler is the best way to learn what these are
The command line is likely to be: $ javac foo.java ---- awesome learning there.

4) Learn the language, not one of many environments.
You appear to have missed the point of Eclipse. It hides the environment and focuses on the application under development -- that one of the main tenets of the eclipse project. You can also move projects to Mac or Linux

aidan_walsh

kyote00 wrote:

The defense rests....:p

kyote00 wrote:

Using textpad or the like will not make you a better programmer.

Yes, it will.

kyote00 wrote:

You will spend more of your time trying to make the code look nice (indents,tabs etc) and less time understanding the main constructs.

Only if you allow yourself to get bogged down in that.

kyote00 wrote:

Eclipse takes away the mundane formatting/typing of a program and setting up of the environment and lets you focus on the program you are trying to write, or the language you are trying to learn.

Eclipse introduces another environment for him to have to learn, one that is only one of many possible ones. Its better for him to come to terms with the language first, and then when he is comfortable with that, start learning an environment to apply it in in a manner that allows him to be productive.

Having to learn Eclipse, or Netbeans, or JBuilder along with Java will only bog him down in the specifics of the environment more than the specifics of Java.

Nobody is telling him to use a simple editor for the rest of his life, ffs, just for the first few weeks while he is starting out. Do you honstly think he will learn the symantecs of a language better with something cleaning up around him as he goes?

kyote00 wrote:

Most companies now will already have an IDE in use. They will also have coding guidelines/standards to ensure that the basic layout and syntax is similiar. They will not be using a command line compiler, this will be wrapped in a build environment, probably linked with the config mgt/source code control system. Most people I know use Ant as the builder for Java for personal projects.

Most companies also like people with a few years experience under their belts.

kyote00 wrote:

You still need to know the command line options (i.e what things are and how they work) (just as you need to know classpath,jar files etc with Eclipse) but it makes the management/changing of these items much easier.

And exclusively using the command line compiler is the best way to learn what these are, how they are best used, what situations to use them in, etc. He can go on and figure out the rest afterwards.

Right now, he wants to learn Java, and nothing more. Not how to wrestle with Eclipse, not how to write an Ant script. Learn the language, not one of many environments.

Your witness.

kyote00

"I used the good old fashioned system.out.println(); debugger , "

The defense rests....:p

py2006