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Should there be zero tolerance by Gardaí towards scumbags?

Red Kooga

The streets are gone fúcking crazy, there's no two ways about it. Ive been to New York 3 times and felt safer at night there than I do at 3 in the morning in Temple Bar.

If you look at countries like Turkey and Italy there is no sinister feeling at night when people fall out into the streets of the capital locked. Why? Because the law enforcement takes no sh*te and simply knocks the bollix out of any troublemakers. The Guards here are becoming a lazy pathethic joke, that story on the front page of the Star a couple of days back about about 2 UK girls been attacked twice in one night just highlights this.

In the past 3 or 4 months things are feeling dodgy night and day in and around O Connell St and I just think something needs to be done before there's a lunchtime mugging or worse.

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AARRRGH

Tha Gopher wrote:

Violent Dublin is a load of sh1te.

I agree. I've lived in the city centre for 10 years and I've only had trouble twice (both my fault.)

I've only ever seen two fights. And I'm in Temple Bar/on the streets every night.

If you want trouble you can have it. If you're like me and you are not into violence, it never happens.

"Scumbags" are highly rare. A cap and nike runners does not make a scumbag.

Ruaidhri

Weathercheck wrote:

1st of all, I don't think dublin is a frightening place at night.
Secondly some of the solutions offered are a bit OTT. The army?

i actually agree, BUT what other solutions are there at the moment? Arm the Gardai, or change the legal system? Both are less than satisfactory solutions.

Violence is not just a problem in Dublin, it's nationwide. and speaking from personal experience, i've seen more fights in small town / rural ireland (usually in one weekend) than any of the cities i've lived in (over a few months!). IMO a solution needs to be put in place NOW and any bugs worked out before the problem escalates beyond what it is now.

Ag marbh

I think there are a hell of alot worse problems in society at the moment. To go wasting money on this would be another dumb government decision.

pbsuxok1znja4r

Fascism. Idiocy. These are what this thread is littered with. If you can't be PC you can't be political. Maybe people should stop hatching dastardly schemes to keep the morlocks in check for just one second and invest some attention in how offensive their rhetoric is. I thought "anti-social behaviour" was a barbarous enough appellation under which to yoke mercilessly together the disparate transgressions which plague our otherwise so well ordered society... but "scum"?! Come on! What is this, the Travis Bickle school of idiotic impunity? Great Scott! What if the government was filled with as many idiot paranoid-cases? Hmm? Well? Hmmm?

bagdaddy

Red Kooga wrote:

The streets are gone fúcking crazy, there's no two ways about it. Ive been to New York 3 times and felt safer at night there than I do at 3 in the morning in Temple Bar.

If you look at countries like Turkey and Italy there is no sinister feeling at night when people fall out into the streets of the capital locked. Why?

Comments?

Yeah thats because they get placed in prisons with insane conditions where the prison officers rape them. It was in a film called the midnight express or something. But on a serious note, yes i do think the gardai should be given special power to kick the ****e out of anyone suspected of trouble and/or sporting clothing from lifestyle/ champion or the lacoste shop.

Dave!

To be honest, I generally feel quite safe in town at night-time, especially around Temple Bar. Mainly because there's so many people there. I've never had any trouble! I'm more anxious walking through Tallaght village (I live around there) at night-time, because it's virtually deserted...

I agree with the sentiment, though. I'd sure love to see a load of scumbags gettin their heads cracked, but unfortunately there'd be a bunch of whiners complaining about it. Ah well, we can only live in hope... If I was a Garda...

Zebra3

Have to agree with the posts about Dublin being safer than provincial towns.

As for the Gardai? They are the scumbags. Attacking innocent people on Mayday '02 and '04. Driving crooks like CJH around the place. :rolleyes: And people want those cu.nts to administer justice by assaulting people. :rolleyes: Give the late night radio phone shows a call, will ya? They'll love ya.

funk-you

I find Dublin to be fairly safe if you know how to carry yourself and not go around being a complete tit. I think a lot the problem with the Garda who are on the streets on the weekend is that these are fresh faced youngfellas just up from templemore who dont just see criminals as scumbags but see all Dubliners as scumbags. It would be fairly daunting for anyone to come from a country town or small community to a city like Dublin where you've been hearing stories about Dublin scumbags and the like your whole life.

The suburbs of Dublin can definitely be a lot more dangerous and you do have to watch yourself more but again its all in the way you carry yourself and act. If you are out anywhere at night though quiet places are the most dangerous, just stay away from anywhere thats not near a main road and dont walk through little alleys/across greens. The more people around the less likely you are to get started on or mugged.

jimmycrackcorm

Zulu wrote:

Yes, well, we all remember the may-day "riots". Personally, I'd rather live in a world where the guards are people to be respected, not just glorified thugs.

Yes where men kill dragons and women are wenches.

Red Kooga

fischerspooner wrote:

There is no point in being all PC on this issue as people who start fights and smash stuff up on saturday nights do not deserve to be analysed in a politically correct way, they deserve to be beaten with batons and thrown in a cell for the night, and if I got a bit rowdy one night and woke up with a cut up head in a cell, I'd know I deserved it.

Exactly.

Even if we do get the extra 2,000 guards they still wont be able to handle the lunacy on the streets.

Hagar

Our gaols are filled to overcrowding. To convict and lock up one criminal the authorities have to release another one to make room. There isn't a single empty gaol cell in the country. Until there is, the scumbags will rule the night regardless of how hard the Gardaí try.

Prior Of Taize

the idea of a tough garda is better than a tough garda. the problem si that i reckon the gardai in this country would take it that because their supposed to be tougher they can do what they want. which ends up in the whole A&E problem someone mentioned. the simple fact is that ireland has a drinking problem and doesnt have the abaility to handle the consequences.

in portugal the police are a branch of the army. im a big guy but some of the cops i saw going around were scary looking.

BaldiePablo

I've gone through this thread and it looks like most (not all!!!) opinions are expressed by the Gardai hating 'Bleeding Heart Brigade'!!

Firstly, the only way to tackle the Dublin Streets is tougher laws and a tougher hand to enforce these laws. At present the law is on the side of the scumbag (before you say it, I class 'scumbag' as anybody who goes out of his/her way to f**k up somebodys day regardless of whether they wear a buddy tash or a suit!!) so the second a 'scumbag' is arrested they are looking for a loophole in the law to have them released. (This applies to those who actually are taken into custody ... in many cases our laws do not promote custodial sentences thus the reason scumbag are not afraid of our judicial system in the first place!) At the end of the day we need the same system Rudolph Giuliani brought into New York ... Three Strikes and You're out!! Yeah, we would need more prisons but the money spent on incarseration would soon be returned after the drop in investigation/A&E/policing/compensation etc costs!

As for those who insist on refering to the antics of a couple of Gardai on that faithfull May Day ... yeah, maybe the actions of a few were a little excessive but this was in reaction to thugs attempting to scar an otherwise peacefull event. Cast your minds back to the last May Day Celebration where the Gardai used force against anybody attempting to tarnish the event. This was applauded by the natives and media alike and compared to good foreign policing!!
With more backing of the Irish people, the law could be changed to assist the Gardai to keep all kinds of trouble makers behind bars thus keeping our streets clean.

If you'e not part of the solution you're part of the problem!!

Red Kooga

Prior Of Taize wrote:

in portugal the police are a branch of the army. im a big guy but some of the cops i saw going around were scary looking.

Maybe thats what we need. Some of the Gardaí look laughable.

Stompbox

The Gardai in this country need a good kick up the arse.Its strange, but in this country, something is only done once there has been an incident regarding it.For example,the government only started implementing seatbelts on buses after 5 lives were lost near Kentstown.The government in Ireland is a ****1ng joke

Red Kooga

Sweet wrote:

The Gardai in this country need a good kick up the arse.Its strange, but in this country, something is only done once there has been an incident regarding it.For example,the government only started implementing seatbelts on buses after 5 lives were lost near Kentstown.The government in Ireland is a ****1ng joke

So how many stabbings/muggings/worse is it going to take before a change is made?

Boggle

Firstly, the only way to tackle the Dublin Streets is tougher laws and a tougher hand to enforce these laws. At present the law is on the side of the scumbag

Unfortunately you've hit the nail on the head here - the gardai are effectively at their wits end in dealing with these people as no matter what a thug (and in particular a young thug) does, there simply isn't any fear that they will be punished....

The problem comes not only from the lack of cells but also in the lack of a strategy in tackling underage crime...

Question is: How do you tackle underage crime in a manner as would not alienate that person from society, while still providing sufficient deterrant to a repeat offence? Not sure its an easy answer... (in saying that you still have to try - which is something this govt is distinctly NOT doing)

randomname2005

Someone said that Temple Bar is one of the "worlds party spots and is to be expected." Bourbon street in New Orleans is (was) also one of the worlds party spots and in the several day I spent there I never heard or saw any trouble.

Unfortunatly the current situation with the revolving door means that people wont get jail time for small crimes. Rather than jailing everyone, some manual labour should be brought in. Before people start jumping down my throat, there are pleanty of jobs that could easily be done by your average person, cleaning A&E rooms, picking litter from parks and streets - punishments that while not killing them will hopefully deter them from doing the same again.
R

Red Kooga

Did I see something on TV3 news tonight about a new gardai campaign to clean up Temple Bar?

Funkstard

No, that's the business owners themselves taking the initiative to try and clear the place up. /\

And, yes, I fully believe the gardaí should have a zero tolerance policy towards troublemakers. As it, they know they can get away with at most a slap on the wrist. The defiance and pure contempt in this country is shocking, little shíts going around terrorrising people and knowing they'll get away with it.

Gardaí should have the power to calm the situation 'by whatever means necessary', beating the shít ouf of the skobes would be allowed.

And people say the gardaí will abuse their power, so what, I can handle knowing a gard might beat the bollocks out of me if I'm acting the dick, I can't handle the state of Dublin's streets anymore.

Dave!

Funkstard wrote:

No, that's the business owners themselves taking the initiative to try and clear the place up. /\

And, yes, I fully believe the gardaí should have a zero tolerance policy towards troublemakers. As it, they know they can get away with at most a slap on the wrist. The defiance and pure contempt in this country is shocking, little shíts going around terrorrising people and knowing they'll get away with it.

Gardaí should have the power to calm the situation 'by whatever means necessary', beating the shít ouf of the skobes would be allowed.

And people say the gardaí will abuse their power, so what, I can handle knowing a gard might beat the bollocks out of me if I'm acting the dick, I can't handle the state of Dublin's streets anymore.

Right on brotha

Dooom

Just got back from New York, and I was out pretty much every night all week till early hours and never once did I get any hassle or anything. I think TV does influence peoples opinion on places like that.
I mean, I was expecting to get hassled for the way I dress (hip-hop clothes) by black folks (no racism intended! Afro-Americans if you prefer) but not once did I get any. I even got friendly with some folks from Harlem and Jamacia (Queens) and they really are really sound. Although Harlem especially has cleaned up a lot in recent years.
Even wandering through some Hispanic neighbourhoods in Queens never once did I feel slightly intimidated. Granted I was a bit apprehensive but that feeling was gone after a few minutes.

Another thing I noticed is that the cops in New York are so much...well better I guess. I mean, if you're intimidated somewhere in this country and you hang close to some gardai you should feel as if they'll stop something bad from happening yeah? Personally, it's the total opposite for me, gardai here are just like anyone else on the street.
Police in America seem a lot nicer, aswell as having the air of authority around them. Maybe it's the gun? Beats me.

One final thing (links to the first paragraph), on the plane back this morning, I really didn't want to come back here! I actually despise this country. I mean, if you do or wear something out of the ordinary, you'll undoubtedly get a lot of hassle from scumbags. New York you could wander around nearly naked (ala the Naked Cowboy) and not get a second glance. Granted that's a bit exaggerated, but you get what I'm saying.

Screw this, I'm living in America.

Dave!

Spike wrote:

Just got back from New York, and I was out pretty much every night all week till early hours and never once did I get any hassle or anything. I think TV does influence peoples opinion on places like that.
I mean, I was expecting to get hassled for the way I dress (hip-hop clothes) by black folks (no racism intended! Afro-Americans if you prefer) but not once did I get any. I even got friendly with some folks from Harlem and Jamacia (Queens) and they really are really sound. Although Harlem especially has cleaned up a lot in recent years.
Even wandering through some Hispanic neighbourhoods in Queens never once did I feel slightly intimidated. Granted I was a bit apprehensive but that feeling was gone after a few minutes.

Another thing I noticed is that the cops in New York are so much...well better I guess. I mean, if you're intimidated somewhere in this country and you hang close to some gardai you should feel as if they'll stop something bad from happening yeah? Personally, it's the total opposite for me, gardai here are just like anyone else on the street.
Police in America seem a lot nicer, aswell as having the air of authority around them. Maybe it's the gun? Beats me.

One final thing (links to the first paragraph), on the plane back this morning, I really didn't want to come back here! I actually despise this country. I mean, if you do or wear something out of the ordinary, you'll undoubtedly get a lot of hassle from scumbags. New York you could wander around nearly naked (ala the Naked Cowboy) and not get a second glance. Granted that's a bit exaggerated, but you get what I'm saying.

Screw this, I'm living in America.

Why don't you actually live in America?

(or were you serious there?)

I'm gonna move out of Ireland as soon as I get my degree (4 years, bleh) -- dunno where to, though; America, Australia, or France, most likely.

Dooom

No, I meant that I want to live in America as soon as I can...go to college there or somthing. Which will cost a ton so I probably won't be able to. Nuts.
Ah I'll get over the jet-lag first and then make some devious mischevious infiendious plan.

Dave!

Just go to college here and move over there afterwards!

The perfect crime... I mean plan.

Funkstard

I know what you mean about coming back into Dublin airport.....I mean, I love Ireland deep in my bones, but I always get a sinking feeling when I drop beneath the clouds, see the greyness, and then things get even worse when going through Dublin airport, not a warm/friendly/inviting place at all. That ***ing Westlife poster when you come down the stairs into immigration/carousel area has been there waaaay too long.

Maybe it's just me though, I get unbelievably depressed when I come back from holidays.

And about New York, thanks to Guiliani (sp?) it's infinitely safer than it was during the 80's. He came in a with a zero tolerance policy towards crime, and in a few years the crime levels had dropped by some ridiculous amount

Kernel

Ruaidhri wrote:

The army seems a good solution. they are trained, wont take any crap, and they really should only act as a symbolic force.

The army are not trained for such situations, most would not be aware of constitutional law, criminal law, Garda practices & procedures (eg. arresting and charging someone, presenting evidence in court) etc. Gardai have to go through 2 years pretty intensive college and on the job training, for their specific role in policing the state.

Ruaidhri wrote:

What other options do we have? the 2000 extra Gardai we've been promised for two elections running? Changing the existing laws to stiffen penalties? Personally i cant see us getting the extra Gardai, it's too much of a deal-sweetener for politicians.

Actually, the state are well on their way to recruiting and training the 2000 promised, so it is currently happening. Lack of capacity is the restricting factor at the moment, but it's happening.

nlgbbbblth

Red Kooga wrote:

So how many stabbings/muggings/worse is it going to take before a change is made?

Fifteen?

nlgbbbblth

BaldiePablo wrote:

As for those who insist on refering to the antics of a couple of Gardai on that faithfull May Day ... yeah, maybe the actions of a few were a little excessive but this was in reaction to thugs attempting to scar an otherwise peacefull event.

It seems that the Gardai have no problem taking on middle class students who are out protesting. Because they know they're unlikely to fight back.

However they baulk at tackling nasal whining, gortexed, Celtic jersey wearing bleedin' story youths hassling everyone in the city centre.

TimTim

Spike wrote:

Just got back from New York, and I was out pretty much every night all week till early hours and never once did I get any hassle or anything

I was in New York a few weeks ago and I have to say the whole fact you can see a gun right at their hands ready to end up shooting you with would make people think twice.

Although I have to say, I know some members of the gardai and I would be afraid to go out knowing they had guns.

Maybe a bit of refresher training couldn't go amiss.