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Off Licence over 21's bull

melekalikimaka

Can an off licence legally not serve you under the reasons...sorry we only serve over 21's?

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Bottle_of_Smoke

I just don't see why an off licence would do that, a club maybe - they'll keep you out to have an over 21's image, but an off-licence - they're just losing money

Jetpilot

Hey, I actually work in an over 21's off licence so ill try and clear some stuff up.

Stekelly wrote:

Saying over 21's only is clearly age discrimination though.

Nope it isnt, because all the off licences that are 21's are 21's based on the amount of fake i'd's recieved, so we arent saying we cant serve you because you are 21, we are actually saying we cant accept any form of ID with an age under 21 on it.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

I just don't see why an off licence would do that, a club maybe - they'll keep you out to have an over 21's image, but an off-licence - they're just losing money

The money lost is nothing compared to the the money that can be lost due to law suits from underage drinking, or being shut down (as happened to another off licence in my area)
__________________

Bottle_of_Smoke

Jetpilot wrote:

Hey, I actually work in an over 21's off licence so ill try and clear some stuff up.

Nope it isnt, because all the off licences that are 21's are 21's based on the amount of fake i'd's recieved, so we arent saying we cant serve you because you are 21, we are actually saying we cant accept any form of ID with an age under 21 on it.

That was prob me, im sorry you couldnt get your beers but the fact is serving you can lose me my job!

The money lost is nothing compared to the the money that can be lost due to law suits from underage drinking, or being shut down (as happened to another off licence in my area)
__________________

It does make sense but it's morally wrong, I sincerely hope you're caught serving someone with a fake ID that says they're 22.

Jetpilot

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

I sincerely hope you're caught serving someone with a fake ID that says they're 22.

Thats kinda harsh, im just a part time worker doing a job I have to do to help pay my way through college, its not like the 21's thing was my decision, but i do have to follow the rules.

Bottle_of_Smoke

When I said you I meant your shop.

steveland?

Jetpilot wrote:

That was prob me, im sorry you couldnt get your beers but the fact is serving you can lose me my job!

Thank you! When I was a barman I refused plenty of people who looked over 18 but didn't have ID or didn't have valid or dodgy looking IDs.

I always went by the logic that it's better to refuse someone if there's any form of doubt than get fired because you weren't sure but did it anyway...

I hate when people think that being refused is something personal... it's usually just to cover the pub's own ass.

It's also annoying as hell when people go moaning about being refused when it's well within our rights as barmen to do it (well not anymore... damn unemployment

). Whinging isn't going to change it and there's pretty much nothing you can do about it short of objecting to their licence renewal which is just going to get ignored anyway because the "powers that be" know how difficult it is to spot fake IDs and underagers.

Bottle_of_Smoke

steveland? wrote:

It's also annoying as hell when people go moaning about being refused when it's well within our rights as barmen to do it (well not anymore... damn unemployment ). Whinging isn't going to change it and there's pretty much nothing you can do about it short of objecting to their licence renewal which is just going to get ignored anyway because the "powers that be" know how difficult it is to spot fake IDs and underagers.

No one's moaning about this, if you have no ID and expect to get served you're probably just drunk. We're moaning about being treated like second class citzens because we're between the ages of 18\20.

Justifying it because of fake IDs is just silly, extremely flawed plan. Might work for a while but if every off licence was to do that then everyone on the other side would get fake IDs saying they're 21.

MrPinK

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Might work for a while but if every off licence was to do that then everyone on the other side would get fake IDs saying they're 21.

It's harder for a 16 year old to pretend to be 21 than it is for them to pretend to be 18.

Jetpilot

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Justifying it because of fake IDs is just silly, extremely flawed plan.

The thing is its the truth, there are some problem area (like mine) where fake id's and underage drinking are problems. Being 21's is not an ideal situation for an off licence to be in, we are losing money from it, and I do get physical threats/verbal abuse from people I have to refuse as part of my job description.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Might work for a while but if every off licence was to do that then everyone on the other side would get fake IDs saying they're 21.

But not every off licence will turn 21's, only ones that need to because of trouble in their area. Plus no matter how good an ID is, if you have the slightest inklin that the person isnt as old as it says on the card you can still refuse them without reason.Plus the majority of 16yr olds dont look 21.

Jetpilot

steveland? wrote:

I hate when people think that being refused is something personal... it's usually just to cover the pub's own ass.

Exactly, but its worse in my place, according to my contract I can get sued instead of the off-licence in an underage law suit with the right circumstances. Why would I take that risk that so some stranger can have 6 cans of tuborg?

chump

quarryman wrote:

it took him 2 years of lurking to pluck up the courage to post that.

a bit harsh?

What are you talkin about, there are other boards on here you know.

And as for my comment, he wrote confidently (not stating it was his opinion etc etc..) about something that he was completely wrong about.

kasintahan

chump wrote:

What are you talkin about, there are other boards on here you know.

And as for my comment, he wrote confidently (not stating it was his opinion etc etc..) about something that he was completely wrong about.

Weird - yesterday your postcount read : 1

That's what they're talking about.

MrJoeSoap

Its a police state, don't let them tell you any different.

seamus

Yes, they're all out to get you :rolleyes:

There's nothing more frustrating than being refused when a) you're overage and b) have valid ID, but I think Jetpilot has made the Off-Licences' positions clear and reasonable.

It's less in an off-licence's interests to refuse customers than a club's - A club may have to refuse otherwise legal paying customer because they cause hassle, but if an off-licence refuses any customer they run the risk of being attacked, or having their shop damaged - so I'm sure they don't make these decisions lightly.

At 23, it's been a while since I've had to deal with this

SparkyLarks

I've got to stick up for the off licences here.

Having a valid ID doesn't mean your the person on the ID.
So for an off licence to say over 21's only or 23's only then that's their buisness.

Surely's it's better to have a policy which will accomodate the 21-85 years old age group while stoping under age drinking even if it does impact on the 18 to 21 year olds , instead of a policy which acomadates the 18-85 year olds and has half of the 14 to 18 year old age group drinking.

Victor

Heres the relevant piece of legislation regarding ID & age:

No. 31/2003: - Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 - Section 15 (ID), Section 25 (age)

DrIndy

I'm 25 and still get occasionally carded - now its a laughing matter and I always get a good chortle by their reaction after I show them my ID...

....yes at 25 I have a garda ID

SparkyLarks

I think " the policy is implemented in good faith" is the ke issue here.

If there doing it because they hate 18 yearolds then it is illegal.
If it's done in the national interest to curb underage drinking it's not illegal