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Queer

Boston

What's people's opinion on this term. Certain LGB groups seem to have it as part of their name.

well I'll start with what it's "meant" to mean, in connection to LGB issues. As I understand its a term used to describe people who are not comfortable the terms such as straight gay or bi. Who would fell they fall in-between these terms and who would view them as polar extremes. These people feel uncomfortable with labels, so Ironically (and perhaps foolishly) a new label has been founded for them, that label being Queer. Perhaps in a fain attempt to retake the word from the bigoted minds of others, perhaps not. Basically people who would identify with the "gay" lifestyle without necessarily being gay/bi.

When this was first described to me some time ago the first thing that popped into my head that it was for hanger on'ers. People who love the thought of having a gay friend cause it makes them so cosmopolitan, so trendy and modern, so... will and grace. I really didn't take it to seriously as an orientation and I've yet to see someone make a valid argument that it is. but who really give a fuk if someone want to "pretend" to empathies with the "scene". Being gay or bi or whatever is nothing to hold over someone, its no goal to attain to, its nothing to be desired more or less over being straight, it just is. Allot of people get upset because Queer could include straight people, and in so doing somehow weakens the fight, whatever that may be.

Now to the point of the thread. While I personally couldn't give a fuk if someone wants to call themselves Queer and hang with all the gays, I do have a problem with people who seek to be linked to LGB issues and people purely for their own political or altruistic reasons while at the same time not identifying at all with what it means not to be straight in Ireland. This type of behaviour smacks of exploitation, and in the end weakens any campaign for equal right since it all becomes so politically aligned and a tool to get people elected or noticed. These people could give a funk about being gay, and every problem associated with being gay becomes a convient means for getting a dig in at the government. example of this would be Ivana bacik

on the other hand, allot of these arguments have been used to put down anything that deviated from the puritan views of homosexuality in the past and present. such as the lesbian feminists denounce transsexuals (MtF) as nothing but male infiltrators trying to get into a position of influence over women, or when the general gay community refuse to recognise Bi-sexuality as an orientation and label it merely a phase, something you tryout on the way to your true sexuality.

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Boston

Thaed wrote:

Not yet Talliesin, but as the gamer virus spreads some day soon.
AS more and more supposed sub cultures become more mainstream
a cross over in terminology is to be expected.

I didn't see you at any of the gamer conventions, would have said hello. fairly disappointed.

Nevyn

I was only at leprecon on the Sat but I was there

And at warpcon too, maybe we wil see you at dominicon.
Maybe you saw us or heard us (apparently we are loud) but didnt know it was us.

Back On Topic:

I think as Talliesin has said Queer was considered out side of the norm.
Some one who utterly rejected soceity and it's standards, where as gay
is a softer term and is used about some one who is still apart of main stream society. You never hear my brother/cousin/sister/aunt/work college/friend
is queer .

cat_rant

Thaed wrote:

my brother/cousin/sister/aunt/work college/friend
is queer .

very true and if some one does refer to them, using the word 'Queer', it's generally an insult or an expression of the fact that they may not approve of that element of the person.

{Off topic} Boston you'd be bound to spot Thead First im well lets just say 'less loud'.

Talliesin

Thaed wrote:

You never hear my brother/cousin/sister/aunt/work college/friend is queer .

I only sometimes admit that some of my friends aren't

Talliesin

Boston wrote:

Is your name John,

Eh, was that aimed at me?
My name is Jon.

damien

It's amazing how there is such a split in peoples' views on the word. I like using the word Queer and find it a damned sight better than LGBTQ. I refer to myself and my friends as Queer but I do note that many gay people despise the word. If someone called me a queer I really wouldn't feel insulted even when I knew it was with malicious intent. I think the word **** is a stronger word and would have more of a negative connotation to me.

Stark

Yeah I definitely think "****" is the worst word going despite some people's attempt to "reclaim" it. While I might normally ignore the juvenile attitudes of people around me, any time I here the word **** uttered my reaction is usually "shut your ****ing face". Which usually gets a surprised look if it's someone I'm not out to

I remember there were complaints from new members of our lgbt soc because committee members were throwing the word about the place thinking they were cool and comfortable enough to use it.

cat_rant

Stark wrote:

Yeah I definitely think "****" is the worst word going despite some people's attempt to "reclaim" it. While I might normally ignore the juvenile attitudes of people around me, any time I here the word **** uttered my reaction is usually "shut your ****ing face". Which usually gets a surprised look if it's someone I'm not out to I remember there were complaints from new members of our lgbt soc because committee members were throwing the word about the place thinking they were cool and comfortable enough to use it.

in all honesty i have heard much much worse terms used than any of those mentioned here so far and its reassuring that the other ones ive heard aren't comonly used and also disturbing due to the fact that i KNOW them

i wouldnt lower myself in anyones eyes by posting them publicly but if curiosity takes over.....pm me

catastrophy

Talliesin

Stark wrote:

Yeah I definitely think "****" is the worst word going despite some people's attempt to "reclaim" it.

Yes. It can be reclaimed partially I think in cases such as the stand-up commedian who had a show titled "**** With a Gun" because it doesn't just say "okay, you're right, I'm a ****" it says "okay, you're right, I'm a ****. I'm also armed. Want to continute this conversation further?"

It's similar to the difference between NWA calling themselves "**** With Attitude" and just throwing the word "nigga" around all over the place. Really, I don't think young black people that are constantly referring to themselves and their friends with that word are doing their self-esteem any good, unless they've managed to reclaim it to the point where they wouldn't mind a white person using the same word to their face. (I don't mind a straight person calling me queer to my face, though it's usually pretty clear just what attitude they are coming from when they do).

That said if someone does call you a **** to your face, or worse, and you just say "yes" or "gosh, am I? That explains why I like cock". Then it does rather deflate their attack, but that's a matter of taking the wind out of one persons sails rather than reclaiming per se.

c3van5

well i know this is a little less offensive but a guy who lives in this little sleepy town with me (he is known as one of the "hard men") saw me getting frisky with my boyfriend in the pub one night (in retrospect not such a good idea with a population of 1,500) then came up to me last night to say "you know its really cool that you dont mind people thinking you are bent"
back handed compliment or just bloody idiot???

Boston

All depends on how he said it, should be obvious. Just because someone is a "hard man" doesn't mean they are homophobic, don't pre judge people.

c3van5

well it was said in a sort of drunken state...
and believe me he IS homophobic, no pre-judging here.
i think it was meant in a nice way but everything that boy does is threatening.

cat_rant

i would say just take it at face value tbh...he probably didnt know how to express it any better, or maybe didnt want to seem too tolerant, if he is such a hard man... tbh the fact that he put cool + bent in the same sentance negates the negative implication of the word...

just a thought...