Victor wrote: There be apartments going in Mayo for €105,000
NewDubliner wrote: In other words, the local property speculators bought lots of sites and houses & are stuck with them.....?
ishmael whale wrote: has caused untold damage in Claremorris where a lot of development took place on the basis that decentralisation was about to happen,’ he said….
gazzer wrote: Note that Revenue is considering relocating staff to Navan, expect an announcement just in time for the bye-election..... I didnt hear anything about this and i work in Revenue.. Then again the staff are usually the last to hear. We usually dont find out till it is on the news
In response to a query, the Official Side Representatives stated that they were not aware formally of the position in Revenue where that Office had stated an intention to seek some changes in the decentralisation programme in order to move staff to Navan.
Mr. Kenny: Since the last occasion on which these questions were asked, significant events have taken place. Will the Taoiseach indicate if he has made any appointment to the chairmanship of the Government decentralisation implementation committee in view of the resignation of Mr. Phil Flynn arising from his association with a person under investigation by the Criminal Assets Bureau in respect of his involvement with a finance company? Will the Taoiseach confirm that there are no restrictions on the promotion of civil servants in Dublin? Queries I have received indicate that when civil servants in Dublin sign up for promotion it must be on the basis that they are prepared to relocate outside Dublin. Does the Taoiseach agree that this is contradictory, given the voluntary nature of the decentralisation programme, under which the former Minister for Finance, Mr. McCreevy, said 10,000 civil servants would be relocated within three years? Can the Taoiseach confirm that promotions are not contingent upon agreement to relocate to a different part of the country? An Ceann Comhairle: The question refers specifically to the Department of the Taoiseach. Mr. Kenny: This refers to the Taoiseach’s Department. The Taoiseach: It does not arise for my Department because it is not moving, but there is no truth in what the Deputy suggests.
pete wrote: That's not exactly true, is it?
Official Side Representatives stated that the document had been put forward as a basis for discussion and that they were prepared to discuss and debate its contents with a view to seeing if a mutually-acceptable outcome could be reached. However, in doing so, they stated that their position since the out-set had always been that it was inevitable that there would be a surplus of staff in Dublin as a result of the implementation of decentralisation and some means would have to be found to deal with this. In this regard, from the very beginning they had taken the position that it was their wish that all vacancies would be used to contribute to the programme and thus to minimise the potential Dublin surplus. As a result of the Union opposition to this approach, they had agreed, on a purely temporary and interim basis, to a position in which inter-departmental assignments on promotion were made conditional on the willingness of appointees to re-locate but internal promotions continued within Departments as heretofore. It had always been their view that this was a minimalist, temporary arrangement and that at some point more far-reaching arrangements would be necessary as a significant surplus of staff in Dublin could not be sustained indefinitely. While they stated that, in the context of some agreed arrangements, they might be able to live with some level of surplus for some temporary period, they felt that they could not have a situation where the continuation of 'normal' promotions was contributing to the potential problem.
The Taoiseach has also said there was no truth to concerns raised by Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny that public servants who signed on for promotion were being told they had to be prepared to work outside Dublin.
uncivilservant wrote: It hasn't gone away, you know.... It should be borne in mind that no indication is given of where these applications are coming from (i.e. are they existing job holders moving with their own jobs or not?), or if these applications from people currently working in Dublin, or if these people will actually jump or not when the time comes.
KILDARE is facing a major crisis if measures are not put in place to cater for its huge population explosion, councillors warned yesterday. The county is growing so fast, it has almost overtaken the latest Regional Planning Guidelines (RPGs) for 2008. There are between 170,000 and 175,000 people estimated to be living in the county compared to expected RPG forecasts of 181,000 in three years' time. Councillors began their review of the draft Development Plan 2005-2011 yesterday. The county manager's report also included a recommendation for an investigation into the possibility of a relief motorway from Naas to Dublin. Cllr Tony McEvoy stressed 22,600 additional houses were being accommodated in the lifetime of the plan, bringing an estimated population of 240,000 by 2011. Cllr Catherine Murphy said she could see transport and education crises if steps were not taken.
ishmael whale wrote: many of whom live in the greater Tuam area.
Rift over IT in public sector 10.02.2005 - Deep divisions between departmental IT heads and central policy makers became clear in a government briefing held by research analysts from Gartner last week. The first of three speakers, John Kost, managing vice-president, was clearly bemused at the exchange of opinions that erupted when he canvassed views from delegates. “Based on the comments today, there doesn’t seem to be a strong central focus on the IT aspects of decentralisation and that’s symptomatic of a bigger problem,” he told siliconrepublic.com after the event. He was ostensibly there to talk about shared services but soon found himself embroiled in a discussion on Ireland’s current position on e-government and its plans for decentralisation in particular. “I was surprised by the reaction. Given the profile of the Flynn Report I would have assumed that there was a fairly substantial managerial effort in making sure it was executed properly,” he said. “The surprising part to me was that in many ways departments seem to have been left to their own devices to figure out what’s the answer that works best for them.” Several high-profile public servants were terse in their analysis of decentralisation, describing it as a crazy political decision where logic didn’t apply. “All that seems to matter is where you do your work, not what you do or how you do it,” said one delegate. Andrea Di Maio, Gartner research vice-president, said the process of decentralisation would affect Ireland’s wider e-government agenda. He reasoned that the move to more integrated services would inevitably be hampered when “minds might be somewhere else”. As one delegate put it: “There is a vision [around e-government] that has been discussed at secretary general level but decentralisation has muddied the waters.” A particular aspect of decentralisation that irked the audience, and one that was addressed in the Gartner briefing, was the uncertainty surrounding technology staff. Around 75pc of the skilled IT employees based in Dublin do not want to be relocated under the terms of the decentralisation programme. According to Gartner research, employment issues inevitably arise from decentralisation. “There is a critical mass when the right skills are in the right place, serving the right organisations. You keep the highest demand employees where the skillsets are in the largest supply,” said Kost. The Flynn Report came up with a plan for three regional IT clusters but the view from the floor at the Gartner event was that this was a pragmatic response in the absence of real discussion. There was concern that having the right people in the right place was going to be a rarity and that there would have to be a greater dependency on contract work. Discussions with the unions about re-evaluating the role of IT personnel had been carried out centrally by the Department of Finance but had come to nothing. The Centre of Management and Organisation Development within the department — came in for some criticism, not only for letting this issue fall off the agenda but for a general inability to engage in discussion with departmental secretary generals. As one senior civil servant put it: “We had discussion but there was no dialogue.” “Given the reputation of Ireland as a software leader, one would have the impression that there was an enlightened leadership,” commented Kost. “There is nothing wrong with decentralisation as a political agenda. There is nothing wrong with the strategy or objectives but there are lots of ways to execute it wrong from an IT perspective. There has to be a clear, integrated enterprise strategy on how to do this properly, otherwise the result, particularly around IT, could be significantly less responsive than what they have now.” Managing technology and defining a strategy in the public sector is something that Kost knows a good deal about. From 1992-1996 he worked in Michigan as the first state chief information officer (CIO). Creating a central CIO for the entire Irish public sector is an option that has been discussed and it’s an approach that Kost obviously has some sympathy with. “The idea of a central CIO makes a great deal of sense if the leadership at the top of Government is paying enough attention. But having a CIO doesn’t guarantee anything except a focal point for conversation. If the Government doesn’t want that conversation about IT, because they don’t care or maybe because they don’t understand it, then it’s all pointless.” He argued that the quality of IT leadership is driven in part by the quality of overall management and the execution of government. “Regardless of whether it’s a country or a state in the US, the fundamental thing is about who is responsible for the day-to-day execution and whether they understand the issues.” In his presentation Di Maio shared the assertion that someone in a CIO-type function had to take responsibility for what he referred to as the first tier of e-government, simple integration between different agencies. Both speakers agreed that the biggest obstacle to progress was not technology but the “turf wars”, the management and interdepartmental power struggles. Judging by the mood of attendees at this particular event, turf wars are a problem that the Irish Government is more than familiar with. By Ian Campbell
... the PSEU Representative raised the fact that the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources had set out proposals to make all internal promotions conditional on people being willing to re-locate, despite the fact that there was no central agreement to this approach and that it was absolutely clear that if any agreement was to be reached it could not and would not involve acceptance of the total elimination of Dublin promotions.
The PSEU Representative also made reference to the proposals as regards change of preferences. In particular it was noted that staff had made choices without full information. In some cases staff had listed locations close to each other and their first preference was not in the list of ‘early movers’ and their second preference location was in that list but was now over-subscribed by first preferences. Similarly the Department of Social and Family Affairs had made changes to their proposals after staff had made their choices. ... The Official Side Representatives stated that all staff had made choices with the same information. To some extent, they noted a ‘chicken-and-egg’ situation in that one criterion to determine ‘early movers’ had been the high level of applicants for that location.
... the PSEU Representative pointed out that there were staff serving currently in Dublin outside of the city-centre and many of these staff had chosen deliberately to locate near their homes. It was noted that it would be a bitter irony if the programme of Decentralisation was to result in people being forced to re-locate into the centre of the city, contrary to their wishes.
smccarrick wrote: Any news in the last week or two? All quiet on the Western Front?
How did you fill in your CAF form? What CAF form? I'm staying in Dublin! 164 Happily submitted my preferred locations. 34 Said I'd go with my Department, but no plans to leave Dublin. 21 Submitted, but with no locations. I'm staying in Dublin! 6 Total votes: 225
true wrote: Most of the towns the jobs are going to are small eg population 10,000 or 15,000. A few hundred people will help these towns,
true wrote: and will attract and support other jobs ...eg service jobs. ( restaurants and shops for the civil servants etc )..
true wrote: I do not know about that, the skills found outside Dublin in the bigger towns often equal if not exceed those found in the capital..
true wrote: The well educated workforce around Ireland do not want to see all of their taxes going.
true wrote: to employ their homesick relations and friends.
true wrote: in the far away , smoky, traffic congested city of Dublin.
true wrote: Most of the towns the jobs are going to are small eg population 10,000 or 15,000. A few hundred people will help these towns, and will attract and support other jobs ...eg service jobs. ( restaurants and shops for the civil servants etc ).
true wrote: Quote This is really only common sense. For example, according to the 2002 Census there are 45,250 persons employed in Wexford. The decentralisation proposes to increase this (eventually) by 375. I think its intuitively clear that Wexford with a workforce of 45,250 will be in much the same situation as Wexford with a workforce of 45,625. Equally, Dublin will not be much impacted if its workforce of 508,030 is reduced by 10,000 - it would nearly gets lost in the rounding. Most of the towns the jobs are going to are small eg population 10,000 or 15,000. A few hundred people will help these towns, and will attract and support other jobs ...eg service jobs. ( restaurants and shops for the civil servants etc ). Quote “ …the difference between Dublin and other places is much greater than a comparison of population size would suggest. …... The study shows that even the large urban centres outside Dublin offer relatively poor environments either for new service firms or for other firms wishing to interface with a range of good quality services. The comparative advantage of Dublin is evident in regard to all aspects of service activity but it is perhaps best exemplified in respect to the leakage to Dublin for the purchase of producer services i.e. business consultancy, PR, marketing and advertising. …… There is a high level of leakage from provincial towns towards the capital in terms of both financial flows and employment. The reasons for not using local firms related principally to the poor quality of the local supply and to protect confidentiality.” I do not know about that, the skills found outside Dublin in the bigger towns often equal if not exceed those found in the capital. The well educated workforce around Ireland do not want to see all of their taxes going to employ their homesick relations and friends in the far away , smoky, traffic congested city of Dublin.
No agreement reached at decentralisation talks 11 January 2005 20:32 Union leaders have met with Department of Finance officials to discuss their opposition to the Government's latest proposals on decentralisation. The Department has proposed limiting promotions in the civil service to those willing to move to decentralised offices, but the unions say they want the proposal dropped. The meeting was described as robust. No agreement has been reached but union leaders say there is no room for manoeuvre on what they believe will turn Dublin into a wasteland for civil servants.
.......And speaking of decentralisation, the impact of that decision a year ago has yet to emerge in terms of the technology deployment strategies. Quite apart from the organisational and operational headaches that face our public administrators, this act of fragmentation — which is really what the Irish form of decentralisation is — has presented the IT communities in government departments and semi-state bodies with considerable headaches, not least of which is the implications for an already serious shortage of skills and expertise. This situation sees frequent use of the large consultancy houses, many of whom are using public service contracts as training grounds for their rookies. The trend in the decentralisation process next year will see some developments of IT centres outside (but perhaps not too far) from Dublin and within in easy reach of each other — ‘stylisation’ perhaps?.......
