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Child Item

Being frisked by gardai

qBot

I don't know if this is the right forum for this, so mods feel free to move it as needs be.

I was just frisked while coming out of an Esso grocery shop. I was with two other friends when an unmarked car pulled up beside us within the grounds of the petrol station. At first i thought they were asking for directions so i had just turned towards them when two gardai stepped out of the car brandishing their id's. I was the focus of their attention and they asked/demanded to search me. I refused at first, asking to see their badge twice. I saw it three times in all but never did get a good look. As far as i was concerned they were college students playing a prank. One guard who looked no older than me kept my friends entertained while the smaller guard frisked me. I didn't want to allow him at first but when he showed off his hand cuffs i obliged. I also asked him why i was chosen and each time he refused to give me an explanation. He wanted to know was i carrying any banned substances and was i responsible for what was in my pockets. Obviously he found nothing. But as he frisked me he let me know that i was being frisked under some act.

Now i don't think they have the right to frisk me like that. They picked me completely out of the blue for no valid reason or atleast they didn't give me one. I want to know from any body out their whos in the know what laws they have that allow em to do this.

btw, my friends were asked too if they had any drugs and they were lightly searched but right from the beginning i was their focus.

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honeymonster

When I was ickle, I was sittin outside a pub with me mates eating chipper food, as yea do. There was a gard walkin by in uniform and me mate said "Smell of bacon" . Then the fucker comes over wanting to know who said it and then starts searching me. I felt so violated................ and not in a good way

seamus

Originally posted by honeymonster
When I was ickle, I was sittin outside a pub with me mates eating chipper food, as yea do. There was a gard walkin by in uniform and me mate said "Smell of bacon" . Then the fucker comes over wanting to know who said it and then starts searching me. I felt so violated................ and not in a good way

Always good to put the ****s up cheeky little bastards. If they can't learn some respect at that age, what kind of scumbags are they going to grow up to be?

Victor

Originally posted by Stark
By the way, the business of being searched at concerts and stuff. Is that legal?

There are separate rules for that and it is probably on your ticket.

^whitey^

Originally posted by Duffman
You don't have to answer *any* questions though, nor can they arrest you for "questioning".

A gaurd at a course yesterday told us you did its part of legislation.

D!ve^Bomb!

a few months ago i was walkin down the road and a police car pulled up, now there was a dodgy lookin fella walkin behind me so i assumed they were lookin for him and so i kept walkin... but it appeared that they wanted me, but i was listening to music so i didn't hear them, anyway when i finally stopped they asked to search my bag so i just said yes.. i have nothin to hide so whats the point in arguin, the gards(4 of em) were nice enough and when they finished they apologised and we said our goodbyes.. there are some nice enough ones but if you come across a prick then just bite your tongue, the more **** u give them the deeper the hole gets

imp

Originally posted by ^whitey^
A gaurd at a course yesterday told us you did its part of legislation.

Iirc, I read a couple of years ago that you have to give your name and say where you're coming from if asked, but you don't have to say where you're going to.

Also they needed reason to demand a search, but refusing a request for permission could apparently be construed as a reason.

'twas in the NCAD student diary a couple of years ago...

Also they definitely have to allow you to get a good look at their ID if you ask, and I'm reasonably sure that they have to be in uniform for a search.

}:>

Duffman

Originally posted by ^whitey^
A gaurd at a course yesterday told us you did its part of legislation.

He's wrong.

Victor

Originally posted by ^whitey^
A gaurd at a course yesterday told us you did its part of legislation.

Only under very specific peices of legilation like the Offences Against the State Act. Did you actually pay attention yesterday?

Originally posted by klaz
But I've heard of incidents where Gardai have taken violent protestors (who were damaging property) into Paddy-wagons, and many protestors surrounding that wagon turned nasty, including assaulting both Gardai and the wagon itself. Do you not agree that protestors that act like this should be put down and put down fast?

Anything more substantial than "I've heard of incidents"?

Tusky

friend of mine had a quater , guards pulled up and the car went just past him , it stopped and they were about to get out ( he was standing on the foot path ) he rolled the quater uunder the car , they searched him and then drove off. He then picked the quater back up and went on his way

*smoooth*

^whitey^

Under the 2003 legislation concerning the new drinking laws.

Because there was one brought out in 1988, 2000 and 2003 there's alot of missunderstanding about them.

It looked like he copied and pasted alot of the stuff, so he didn't just come up with the stuff.

He admitted that even the gaurds are struggling keeping up to date with the new legislations.

Turner

They can ask you your name and address under various legislation... public order, road traffic, offences agains the state. If you refuse they can arrest you.

Also they do not have to be in uniform to search you. They do however have to identify themselves.

Mutz

I think alot of peoples attitudes stem from popluar opinion at the time. People who dislike authority are normally people who have tendancies to end up on the wrong side of the law anyway.

If a Garda suspects that you have commited or about to commit an offence - he may ask you your name and address. If he believes the answers you gave him to be false or misleading he can arrest you. Check www.oasis.gov.ie and enter GARDA POWERS into the search facility.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Originally posted by Tusky
friend of mine had a quater , guards pulled up and the car went just past him , it stopped and they were about to get out ( he was standing on the foot path ) he rolled the quater uunder the car , they searched him and then drove off. He then picked the quater back up and went on his way *smoooth*

niiiiiice

John R

Originally posted by Emmo
I think it will be funny to see how the less than professional Gardai (there are lots of them about) get on when they are face to face with the May Day protests and the influx of Anti-Capatalists.

Too many Gardai use their power to abuse people to make themselves feel good. Happen every day of the week.

The reason that they have to deal with crap is because of the amount of crap they dish out, no on likes dealing with them.

They have been the subject of countless succesful personal injury claims in the last 10 years. Why? cause they are idiots who instead of keeping the peace bully the normal public.

Emmo

Well they have already gotten away with beating the **** out of protestors at least once before so I wouldn't be surprised if they try it again soon. Uniform Guards should be instantly fired for intentionally removing their identification numbers.

Ivan

Originally posted by cuan
My main beef with this is, what is stopping any guard pulling over anyone they decide for no valid reason. They should as far as im concerned given me a reason.

Well its pretty simple really.

Either you allow them to search you there on the spot or else you object. They arrest you for acting "suspiciously" and search you at the station instead.

Option .1.
5 minute inconvience and you feel slightly embarassed while at the same time feel slightly "harder".

Option .2.
Anywhere up to 24 hours depending on how you behave.

Is your honour really worth it?

pork99

Originally posted by cuan
To back up my argument aswell, i was told from a friend of mine today that their is infact a guy pawning himself off as a guard to steal money from them go arround the area i live

There are countries, Russia for example, where thats how the regular police behave. If they stop you you have to bribe them to stop them arresting you. Whether you have done anything or not. People here do not know how lucky they are.

I know some Russians and other foreigners who find the Gardai are very polite and helpful. Especially compared to the police in their own countries.

As for May day protestors would you prefer to see your own city smashed up or do you want someone to defend it? It's like an invasion. If the cops wanted any help to knock the sh|te out of those anti-social scumbags I would volunteer in a heartbeat

silverside

would you prefer to see your own city smashed up or do you want someone to defend it

I would have no faith in the guards from certain dublin stations handling of the situation. I have heard too many first-hand stories of friends getting badly treated (i.e. assaulted) by them for fun, then being charged to try and make them shut up. If I needed someone for riot control, I would want the army or the RUC, who are at least trained properly, not some baton-happy scumbag guard from store street, or some kid fresh up from templemore.

Red Alert

The gardai are quickly losing respect as they seem to be more and more at the whim of Fianna Fail governments.

silverside

I don't think its a political thing, I think the problem is *not enough* control, there is a significant number (minority?) of guards who are lazy,ignorant,power-tripping, and there is nothing that can be done to complain about them as in Police Ombudsman.

[Deleted User]

If I needed someone for riot control, I would want the army or the RUC, who are at least trained properly, not some baton-happy scumbag guard from store street, or some kid fresh up from templemore.

Thats all very well and good. But you didn't answer the question. Would you prefer these protestors to damage your car, or your house? Sorry, a minority of them to do it.

The Gardai are there to protect the peace and for the most part they do.

Well they have already gotten away with beating the **** out of protestors at least once before so I wouldn't be surprised if they try it again soon. Uniform Guards should be instantly fired for intentionally removing their identification numbers.

John, I agree but only in the cases where the protestors did nothing to deserve it. And i'm not going to believe Indymedia reports that say that they didn't. Many of these protestors go out looking for trouble, and when they receive the brunt from the Law they complain. Can you really expect to burn a car, throw rocks, or push Gardai and get away with it?

silverside

You are dealing in hypotheticals here. The protesters last may day werent out to cause damage. *NONE* of them were charged with vandalism. *NONE* of the gardai involved suffered any injury. The gardai were faced with a large number of people milling around, some were taunting them, some were drunk and/or spaced out, but the guards just didnt know how to control the situation, so they lashed out in the only way they knew, a baton charge.

If there were protesters out to cause criminal damage, of course I would want someone to protect life,limb and property, but I would want those people to be properly trained, and accountable.

seamus

Originally posted by silverside
You are dealing in hypotheticals here. The protesters last may day werent out to cause damage. *NONE* of them were charged with vandalism. *NONE* of the gardai involved suffered any injury. The gardai were faced with a large number of people milling around, some were taunting them, some were drunk and/or spaced out, but the guards just didnt know how to control the situation, so they lashed out in the only way they knew, a baton charge.

You are dealing in an isolated incident here, perpetrated by, surprise surprise, a rogue minority. It shouldn't happen but it did. How can indymedia scream bloody murder when one bad minority attacks them, but feign powerlessness and apathy when infiltrated by a similar bad minority? Is there not still ongoing investigations about the incident? (Actual question, not a rhetorical one)

The difference between this year and last year is the existence of European officials on May Day. The protests are going to be much bigger.

Ivan

Originally posted by klaz

John, I agree but only in the cases where the protestors did nothing to deserve it. And i'm not going to believe Indymedia reports that say that they didn't. Many of these protestors go out looking for trouble, and when they receive the brunt from the Law they complain. Can you really expect to burn a car, throw rocks, or push Gardai and get away with it?

No, you go out, burn a car, throw rocks and/or push gardai.

You expect to get detain, maybe questioned and/or spend a night in a jail cell.

You dont expect to get subdued and beaten to a bloody pulp by several Gardai.

Cop on man, nobody deserves to be beaten up, regardless of what you've done.

You see, there are these things called laws...

SheroN

The difference between this year and last year is the existence of European officials on May Day. The protests are going to be much bigger.

The garda ass whomping should be bigger then to compensate.

silverside

But I don't think it is an isolated incident. I think the gardai are willing to assault young men in stations round the country, regularly, because they know they will get away with it. I know first hand of two situations in the past two years, and have heard about more.

AFAIK a handful of the more obvious gardai involved were charged and the cases were up in court last year. I don't know if any of them were convicted, but I don't think so.

I know the internal garda investigation ran into a brick wall due to non-cooperation.

BKtje

Cop on man, nobody deserves to be beaten up, regardless of what you've done.

I disagree. The girls that burned the other girl alive deserved a beating imo.
Lucky i aint a guard i guess.

Lemming

Originally posted by silverside
I don't think its a political thing, I think the problem is *not enough* control, there is a significant number (minority?) of guards who are lazy,ignorant,power-tripping, and there is nothing that can be done to complain about them as in Police Ombudsman.

The problem is not that there is a bad minority. The problem with the gardai is a deep, fundamental one. The entire culture/system is rotten to the core, if only even by association. Unaccountability is rife, decent cops turning a blind eye for fear of being seen as "grassing up" their colleagues or having their careers canned, and the minority knowing that they can do whatever they want and nothing will ever be done. Hell!! Even the Complaints board is run by the Gardai themselves. How's that for impartiality? :rolleyes:

Most Gardai are easy to deal with from my own experience. I have however dealt with the few (on more than one occasion) - all fairly innocent - who sully the name of the rest of the force. Problem is that one of these 'gents' was an inspector (or some such high ranking garda) over many many gardai.

Big Ears

Silverside ur makeing out as if we would be better with no police force at all , and u are acting like all guards are scumbags but the truth is only a minority are . ( and thats a very small minority )

Lafortezza

I was chatting to a buddy of mine who is a Garda who is coming up to Dublin to be part of the increased police presence at the marches and so on.

I asked him if he'll be around to meet up for a pint and he said that he'll be on call in the hotel.
Me: "On call for what?"
Him: "In case we're needed to go out for the riots"
Me: "Don't you mean the protest marches?"
Him: "Yeah, same thing."

I'd guess that the Gardai are coached not to be seen as anything but responsible law-keepers when the marches are on, but from what I gather from my mate, the unofficial attitude is "We're not taking any shit from these assholes, lets just be subtle about it"

I can see that small minority of the protesters trying to goad the gardai into a repeat of the baton charge.

Stark

Lemming's post sums things up nicely IMO.