Of course it is. He averaged 50 minutes in his 3 starts. Timoney was better than him in some of the games he came on in. On the evidence of this 6 Nations "still performs at a much higher level than any other 7 in Ireland" isn't accurate.
So "not within an arses roar"? Na….
And well done to Nick Timoney.
However there is a reason why VDF still starts and Timoney doesn’t.
That is because VDF is still a significantly better footballer.
Vdf is on a central contract...he will be the starting 7.
It's pretty simplistic to suggest the player who benches "isn't withing an arses roar" of the starter. And therefore the starter is "significantly better player".
If anything, VdF going from averaging 70 mins in last years 6 Nations, to 50 mins this year would suggest the gap has significantly closed…
I don't think I'd be surprised if Timoney was to start ahead of him in the Summer.
I quite liked the "arses roar," sounds great.
No matter how many times people bring this up, it quite clearly is not how it works.
It's suits an agenda. They'll never change
That's some loud gas
There is no agenda behind this.
The best players get the central contracts , & in the majority will be the starters bar injury whilst on that central contract
Yes, but they are not starters because they have central contracts and the fact he is on one is irrelevant in isolation to his selection now. He is not playing as well as he has in the past and other options are making themselves available.
He'll start I am sure, but he has less rope than he would have had in the past.
Generally central contracts and Ireland starters will correlate strongly. I think Henshaw is the weakest link it that argument though. He hasn't been very good for a while now, but keeps getting guaranteed place in Ireland squads. There are options this year.
If henshaw get in ahead of the options, then it would be hard to argue central contracts don't lead to selection.
Henshaw has been written off a few times & has proven not to be.
I agree he is on the downward curve but I would think he will go to the world cup...
He's Been written off but has he had a run of great form in the last couple of years? He's had a few good games here and there.
Henshaw Going to the world cup without gaving a proper tryout to the younger contenders, would add to the argument that central contracts can lead to gametime rather than the other way around.
Henshaw and Aki are both on central contracts and both are behind the non-centrally contracted McCloskey.
They are proof that a CC does not guarantee selection
Not entirely. If they are in the squad and keep the players behind them out of the squad and out of centention for a decent tryout, that doesn't suit your argument.
Can anyone serious argue that Postlethwaite isn't as good as henshaw these days? Inexperienced, sure. But but worth a proper tryout. (It's the internet so you can get people to argue almost anything. But nobody would seriously believe, Postlethwaite isn't worth a proper try)
Correct & outside of Furlong the other centrally contracted players are generally starters & not being kept out of the side by non CC players
Stu Mc is an outlier.
Postlethwaite was in the 6N squad this year. He got a decent tryout. Henshaw didn’t play at all, but when game minutes became available (and they always do) they went to Tom Farrell.
Whatever was holding Postlethwaite back, it wasn’t Henshaw’s contract
Meh, depends how selective you want to be.
James Ryan was (and is) on a central contract but Joe Mc came through in 2024 and displaced him from the starting team.
Ask Jacob Stockdale how a CC worked out in guaranteeing him caps.
Conor Murray was on a CC until 2024, when JGP got his, loooong after they swapped places in the pecking order.
Way to disprove your argument mentioning Joe Mac and CCs. That was waay too soon unless he was about to be snapped up abroad (he wasnt). This is the first year he's followed up on his early promise. Jury's still out. He needs to show it in green.
Stockdale has had a career of massive promise followed by perennial injury and poor form. Another one where they jumped the gun.
Murray was behind JGP but was still very very important to Ireland up to 2024 because there was nobody close behind him as second choice 9.
As far a Stu McC goes, he's probably too old now to get a CC. You could argue that Lowe was also a little old breaking in/being eligible to have got one.
Theres a sweet spot and not many players come good at the right stage of their career in their particular position.
Frawley for example, could shoot the lights out at Connacht for the next 3 seasons, start most games at 10 for Ireland and he probably still wouldn't get one. His time for that is past.
It's almost as if you're saying having a central contact doesn't guarantee you a starting spot
Way to disprove your argument mentioning Joe Mac and CCs.
The assertion was that a CC guarantees selection. McCarthy displacing Ryan is evidence that it does not. Murray/JGP and Stockdale/everyone confirm this.
If you want to flip this to a Leinster bias/Andy's favourites argument, you'll get plenty of people to indulge you but I'm not one of them.
I posted yestarday that vdf will start at 7 as he is centrally contracted.
I thought it was obvious the best players by & large get the central contract.
This led to responses such as "no matter how often this comes up its not true" to "suits an agenda"
Maybe I wasn't clear in posting.
Its clearly a sensitive subject for some here.
Fwiw I thought vdf was one of the best leinster players in the final if you ranked their performances as a team.
Is Timoney knocking on the door of displacing him at test level...yes.
Do I think Timoney will get a consistent run of games ahead of him..No.
Why?
He's the only test level 7 we've had on the island for long period of time...hence he's central contract forva very good reason
He maybe on a downward curve but still ahead of others imo.
Its factual to state that centrally contracted players by & large will be consistent starters...are there a small crop of outliers..yes.
Of the current group on CC i can't see more than 1 not travelling to the RWC nxt year barring injury.
This sentence structure means a very specific thing - an incorrect thing as it turns out
So having a central contract doesnt mean you by & large will be a starter??
Yes. Kinda. But it does guarantee you'll be around if needed.
@Former Former Former , I'm definitely not banging any Leinster bias drum. My comment in relation to Joe was to make the point that whilst getting a CC is the equivalent of being a 'made man' for a while, they don't always get it right and sometimes have been bounced into giving one out a little early. Stockdale would be another good example. I'm confident that Joe will justify it this/next season and beyond. Probably what made the difference is that we produce very few athletes of his size and are always light at lock.
"By and large" doing a lot of heavy lifting for you there - the CC didn't necessarily get Iain Henderson or Jacob Stockdale selected did it? James Ryan saw himself dropped down the pecking order despite his CC, Robbie Henshaw and Bundee have found themselves behind Stu McCloskey now despite their CCs.
You're conflating two things that aren't necessarily related. The best players in Ireland, for the most part, hold CCs, so obviously that cohort tends to start for Ireland more often than not.
Saying "vdf will start at 7 as he is centrally contracted" reads to any reasonable reader as though you're saying the reason he starts is specifically because he's holding a central contract.
"vdf will start at 7 as he is centrally contracted"
Faster backtracking than a flat-earther booking a round-the-world cruise.....
This is the fundamental problem here.
Having a central contract does not mean you'll be a starter, by and large or otherwise.
The best players get picked. By and large the best players have central contracts.
So by and large the centrally contracted players get picked, but because they are the best players, not because they have CCs.
It is factually incorrect and completely agenda-driven nonsense to say that players get picked because they have CCs.
I had forgotten about Henderson. So Joe McCarthy overtook not one but two centrally-contracted players.
FFS lads.
I clarified what I posted on vdf.
The subsequent posts just showed the sensitivity some people have when central contracts are mentioned.
Apologies if sentence structure wasn't clear.
