Finally someone is calloing out the return scam.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/government-urged-to-reform-or-disband-shambolic-re-turn-scheme-after-e500000-bin-raiding-bill-1905390.html
Never thought I'd agree with Peadar.
Tóibín had also questioned the amount of money accumulated by Re-turn, the private company that operates the DRS, claiming that €103 million in unredeemed deposits was “resting in its account”.
and
Tóibín said the DRS deposit was “like a tax” on consumers, except it doesn’t go towards paying for hospitals, education, housing and other public services.“Instead, it goes to a company and to CEO salaries that they refuse to publish,” he said.
Tóibín said the DRS deposit was “like a tax” on consumers, except it doesn’t go towards paying for hospitals, education, housing and other public services.
“Instead, it goes to a company and to CEO salaries that they refuse to publish,” he said.
Reminds me of the M50 toll bridge. In incredibly stupid idea. Maybe I'm just getting old.
It would be a waste of energy engaging further to be honest.
I was feeling the same way.
I doubt if any of your ideas have much chance of bearng fruit.
Cigarettes and alcohol are excisable goods, so not part of the EU customs union for goods. Diesel, petrol, heating oil are exciseable goods too
Let's not go down the "VRT is an illegal tax" route again, but you can import any motor vehicle from anywhere in the EU completely tax free. It's only if you want to register it for road use that you have to pay VRT.
5L plastic water bottles aren't subject to the levy. Buying anything smaller than that if you're reliant on bottled water for drinking doesn't make any economic sense, Re-Turn or no Re-Turn
What has to be changed regularly? I've never seen a DRS machine changed since they were brought in.
You're not buying water in cans or glass so can't blame the well on that. Food tins aren't part of Re-Turn.
Some posts deleted and the poster sanctioned.
The topic is the Re-Turn program, not your fellow posters. Please remember that.
-Mod
Here's the real problem with Irish people.
"I've never used it, but I imagine it to be a sticky nightmare, so I'm gonna use this and the bad stuff being spouted by all the negative Nellys as justification for reinforcing the stance I already held on this matter and refuse to have an open mind".
How in the name of Christ can you condemn it if you've never even tried it?
The thing is badly thought out nonsense.
Im not participating or supporting it,thats my choice.
This doesnt effect you,dont get upset about it.
The EU targets associated with Re-Turn are collection targets not recycling targets.
No-one can actually verify how much gets recycled. 90% of PET plastic gets shipped out of Ireland. Probably to be incinerated, buried or strangle a porpoise.
Now it transpires Re-turn are hiring sitting councillors into PR roles who used to lobby for them. With our deposit money. No conflict of interest there of course.
You're right, it doesn't affect me. And I'm not upset, despite your insinuation that I am.
Your opinion on the scheme isn't based on anything tangible, though. Vibes, as the kids are wont to say. You are literally making up reasons out of thin air and using these fake scenarios as a reason not to engage with it. You are entitled to that opinion all you want, and you can take potshots at it all you want, but let's not pretend that it's based in reality when you're openly admitting that it's all in your head.
I can sit here and list off reasons why I don't think it's badly thought out nonsense, but I've a feeling it'll fall on deaf ears. Those reasons would at least be based on real world experience, at least. You've made your mind up, (before it even commenced I'd wager), without giving it a chance which, as I already mentioned, is a chronically Irish problem……"I don't like it so ?I'm going to piss all over it instead of giving it a fair crack of the whip". Same with the smoking ban. Same with the plastic bag levy. Same with the Dublin Bikes. Same with……….
The scheme has its issues, but it has been nothing short of a roaring success in what it set out to do.
Hate this disingenuous tactic of claiming other posters are "getting upset" when all they're doing is disagreeing with you
Getting more and more common across threads and it's just a way of avoiding answering legitimate points
Does it upset you? 😎
what it set out to do
This very much depends on who you ask and when since launch.
It used to be recycling. Now according to those same Re-Turn supporters it's collection.
An expensive exercise (extra carbon footprint and cost to retailers, customers and the exchequer from recent reports) in moving containers around.
Could you post your version of what Re-Turn set out to do?
I've called it out multiple times over the past year or so. It's the very definition of "attack the poster"……try to paint them as being angry, or irrational or somehow emotionally involved as a way of disputing their points. Cowardly and transparent as fcuk, is what it is.
Encourage the introduction of the billions of plastic bottles and cans that might not have made it into the recycling system, into their own, guaranteed recycling stream and lessen the impact on the environment. 3 billion containers retuned in 2 years, when there's no guarantee they would have made it into a green bin without the scheme, is a success in anybody's books. That's an average of about 500 per person, every year.
You have proof of this, of course? For what it's worth, I'd argue they're both the same. Who the fcuk is collecting them and not recycling them?
No-one can actually verify how much gets recycled.
90% of PET plastic gets shipped out of Ireland.
Probably to be incinerated, buried or strangle a porpoise.
You wrote that but it doesn't make sense.
How, if nobody knows the amount recycled, is probably 90% incinerated, buried or strangling marine animals ?
Haha! " cowardly and transparent as fcuk".
If anybody could be accused of attacking the poster here its not me....
Youre getting too worked up and should relax.
Its everybody's choice whether to support this nonsense or not.Im choosing not to,you're choosing to collect dirty cans in your house and car.
Its not a big deal.
I wont respond again if you cant keep it civil.
In many cases plastic waste including PET bottles are incinerated in Ireland. The value of plastic waste has fluctuated wildly over the years from a net negative value to a positive value
Q.E.D………First off, I didn't say it about you, I said it about all the other times I've encountered it here over the past year or so. You were too eager to take umbrage though, for some reason……..a lesser poster than myself might put that down to you being angry, or upset, or worked up………
If anybody could be accused of attacking the poster here its not me....Youre getting too worked up and should relax.
Define irony: claiming you're not attacking the poster, then attacking them in the very next breath……
Correct. I reserve the right, however, to point out that your experience is based on nothing but disdain from the scheme and my opinion is based on using it every week for the past 30 months or so. It is notable, however, that not once have you tried to defend your stance on this. By not arguing back, you are indirectly agreeing with what I'm saying.
Its not a big deal……I wont respond again if you cant keep it civil.
And here we go again, claiming that people are uncivil with SFA to back it up, literally trying to paint me as something I'm not because your entire argument is based on nothing but vibes, I pointed it out, and you have no way of countering my points other than to label me as someone who's losing their cool, when the opposite is true.
I've been over this with you.
Something can either be true, false or disputed. Pick one. I said probably so where do you think that falls?
Tell me again. Whats your definition of success for Re-Turn these days. Is it collection or recycling?
guaranteed recycling stream
What guaranteed system would that be? The one where containers get shipped abroad with no verification? I have a bridge to sell you.
Proof that Re-Turn fans have flip flopped from recycling to collection because they cant back up the recycling claim? What a bizarre request for proof. The posts are in the main Re-Turn thread.
So collection is the same thing as recycling? Every day's a school day🤣
I'd say probably has back strain from the heavy lifting.
It's been obvious from the start that Re-turn does not have in-house recycling facilities.
They collect the containers and have consistently publicly stated that they send what is collected for recycling.
Now why would I believe your probably over them ?
What exactly are you believing from Re-Turn?
That containers are being "collected for recycling" with no verification on how many are recycled?
Join the club. Sounds like we're getting somewhere. Probably not though.
It's more a matter of not believing someone who makes stuff up and sticks probably in front of it.
Re-turn has a Board of directors, makes regular reports to the Minister and it's books are audited.
Face it, they are more credible than some guy on Boards.
As for "the club" I'll take the Groucho Marx option 🙂
And where in these audits would such a thing come to light?
Lots of organisations with boards of directors, making 'regular reports' to a Minister, and with audited books tell porkies in their marketing spiels or their public lobbying.
Already on their own website they've mixed up recycling targets and collection targets.
So nope they don't have credibility here.
They've hired as their PR guy a FG councillor who just so happened to have lobbied for them to get VAT waived. Out of all the PR people they could have hired… Even though they are already sitting on a massive surplus of tens of millions of unclaimed deposits.
They have the information, the onus is on them to back up their claims about whether what is collected is recycled, anything else is charter for corporate disinformation.
The books are audited! You've convinced me 😅
Do you agree that their deposit slush fund should be VAT exempt because they have a Board?
Do you agree with the Minister when he says we shouldnt build a recycling centre with deposits? That it should all go back into the circular economy fund?
Quick, change the subject!!
Whataboutery and conspiracy theories aren't enough to base made up stories about incineration, landfill and killing porpoises on.
Give over. Does that mean if you ever queried a claim made by a company or government you were proposing a conspiracy theory? Of course it doesn't.
Never heard of 'greenwashing'? Is that a conspiracy theory?
It's hardly a conspiracy theory to question where the items collected end up and whether they are actually recycled. Trying to shut down such concerns with shouts of whataboutery and conspiracy theories and vague references to audits and 'reports to Ministers' is really desperate stuff.
Return's own website falsely claimed that the scheme was brought in to meet EU recycling targets. Nope, it was brought in to meet EU collection targets,
So Return itself don't seem that bothered about the distinction. They don't get the benefit of the doubt.
So it is entirely reasonable to question Return's claims on this.
Quick, dont answer any questions!
Whos changing the subject?
Directly related to your assertion that because books are audited and the minister's office gets reports that every decision related to Re-Turn is credible. Its been clearly demonstrated here and in the main thread that its a scheme that lets producers off the hook and increases plastic usage.
So I'll ask again:
Do you agree that their deposit slush fund should be VAT exempt because they have a Board?Do you agree with the Minister when he says we shouldnt build a recycling centre with deposits? That it should all go back into the circular economy fund?
Stating that the containers are probably being incinerated, landfilled or dumped at sea is a conspiracy theory.
Referencing other organisations that have behaved badly is whataboutery.
Nobody's trying to shut down concerns or stop discussion.
I've been on various threads since DRS was introduced discussing the project.
I've given advice about aspects of DRS and tried to help people.
You know this because you have taken part in many discussions yourself.
It is entirely reasonable to question Re-turn.
You are.
I said they are more credible than someone on Boards.
The VAT and recycling plant issues are not remotely connected to this discussion.
