How many of us think that unification is no longer a priority and don't really want unification ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124520727#Comment_124520727

I think it's a case of how you view the world versus how I do.

That's just how it is.
Nothing to do with 'Irish interest' btw.
A BP will be called in the GB's interests.

And a UI now suits GB's pursuit of sovereignty. Partition royally came back to bite them. That penny is still dropping.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124520743#Comment_124520743

And a UI now suits GB's pursuit of sovereignty

No it doesn't. Absolutely nobody but niche political elements support it. Do you follow UK politics at all?

And all signs still point to a BP failing quite badly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124520751#Comment_124520751

I do follow it somewhat and analysed why GB threw NI (Unionism) under a bus so callously and easily when it came to their own selfish interests.
Partition had come back to bite them and restricted their sovereignty. That was not lost on them. Unionists have to hope that GB will not seek further divergence from the EU you would think but like moths to a flame they are pushing for it, one strategic blunder after another.

JohnDoe2025

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124520656#Comment_124520656

No point in discussing any further, you have clearly explained your opinion, flawed as it is in not understanding the principles behind judicial reviews.

JohnDoe2025

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124520751#Comment_124520751

There is the wider geopolitics to consider as well - the threat from Russia. That alters the internal UK view of what should happen to Northern Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124520794#Comment_124520794

You claimed the McCord Case legal principles will have no effect in any Judicial Review and you are posturing as some kind of expert.
Whatever.

irish_goat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124520727#Comment_124520727

I think you are underestimating what a change in government could mean if the next lot decide they want to privatize the NHS some more and start introducing prescription and water charges.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124520784#Comment_124520784

And at no point whatsoever during the whole sordid mess of Brexit did the idea of offloading NI even come close to being mentioned. If anything the exact opposite.

Labour are not looking for divergence from the EU but the opposite, the Tories won't rock the boat as they showed when in power and Reform would sooner just breach the GFA than give NI any say in the matter.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124520848#Comment_124520848

The UK (like every other country in Europe) already has water charges and the NHS NI is already by many metrics worse than the HSE.

I mean if the argument is that the UK could become so much worse that the appeal for a UI grows I don't, on the surface, disagree. But they have been doing their best for the last 10 years to advance that cause and it hasn't helped that much.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124520938#Comment_124520938

Well, not like me to give GB much credit for handling Ireland and NI but that was wise.

Imagine the complications they'd have caused had they officially suggested that.

Whtever makes you think that Lab and the Tories will maintain power, I'm not sure, only that it is guesswork.
And anyone predicting what Reform might do or what they might cause is also guessing.

JohnDoe2025

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124520971#Comment_124520971

So the whole idea of there being a border poll is just wild guesswork then?

irish_goat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124520953#Comment_124520953

NI doesn't have water charges yet, but they are on the way. NHS NI is definitely worse than the HSE, but whilst it remains "free" it will be hard to convince anyone that there is a better alternative.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124521063#Comment_124521063

Of course it is guesswork. Just as ruling one out is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124521065#Comment_124521065

Huh, I didn't realise that. How bizarre.

I agree, but I also am far from convinced it is going to be a game changer. But if the argument is that successive UK governments might slowly drive NI away I am ok with that, but it will still take decades.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124521151#Comment_124521151

There won't be a 'single game changer'. It will for be an on-balance or future prospects decision, for the 'game changing' undecided's.

astrofool

Just for sh*ts and giggles, here are SF's "proposals" on a UI, if you notice that every proposal is a proposal for a proposal, you're not incorrect, there doesn't seem to be a single policy in place other than a plan for a policy.

No wonder the SF members are afraid to open their mouths here. Please link if they have something firmer rather than have the level of the debate pathetically being "google it".

Plan for a green plan, it does involve establishing another ministry however, remembering the previous howling on the same subject:

A-United-Ireland-A-Plan-For-Reunification.pdf

From 2025 (standard of the PDF is quite poor, content is middling but again no policy or details):

GreenPaperOnIrishUnity

No news since January and less than a years' worth so far, obviously not a priority (or the intern left after 11 months)

Uniting Ireland News - Sinn Féin

Again, they've tried nothing and are all out of ideas.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124524606#Comment_124524606

You seem to think inveterate anti-UIers and active partitionists are owed a debate. You aren't.
You are not the target audience of the stuff you posted. Why would anyone waste time and effort with the closed mind you display? Would be a bit like asking Jamie Bryson to engage positively.

astrofool

Engage positively so (beyond warm feelings), I'm pro-UI, but I don't see it happening with parties like the DUP and SF involved in the process, one will stifle everything and the other is too afraid to put forward realistic proposals in case it threatens their hardcore element that they'll never be able to drive it.

The alluded to documents that is now made real above and not asking for Google use have nothing of substance to them that would advance the case for a UI and more importantly, if they were serious, barring a ministers position, there is nothing stopping them beginning the processes while in power in NI and out of power in ROI if that non plan is truly their plan.

Blaming the current government while having no plan or policy (or that plan or policy) to discuss is truly pathetic.

I will also add that, while not surprised, that I am kind of shocked at how little substance there actually was and can understand the reticence to discuss the policies and hide by telling people to use Google, it truly is that vapid. I was kind of hoping for a gotcha with some details, but alas.

This is a discussion site, it's for debate, if that is not happening, what is the purpose other than deflections in bad faith. Accusing others of having a closed mind is hilarious.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124524241#Comment_124524241

The Green Paper one is from 2005, but one could be forgiven for thinking it's from last year, as it's the exact same thing as they (and Francie) say today. 20 years and not a single idea or suggestion, plenty of tricolours mind so that seems to be off the table anyway.

'The creation of a united Ireland is the primary political objective of Sinn Féin.
We are working to make this a reality in our time. There is an onus on all those
who advocate national reunification, especially the Irish Government, to plan
and take steps to achieve it.'

'Sinn Féin is setting out our roadmap to Irish unity and we believe
that others should do the same.'

Who knew that SF had charged themselves with planning and taking steps to achieve a UI 20 years ago? Still setting out that roadmap i guess.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124524642#Comment_124524642

'Nothing to stop them' only the belief expressed by MLMD that UI policy proposals cannot be made until all stakeholders are together in the proper forum convened by an Irish government.

You either think it's a consultative process or you don't.
You prove magnificently what happens Astro when even ideas are vaguely outlined. Tramp them down as the devil's work, don't allow them air. It's futile as belligerent Unionism found out, things will move on regardless.

As a (genuine) 'pro-UIer I am delighted to see ideas and outlines from different people at the Shared Island Unit, Ireland's Future and the All Party Committee etc The SDLP are also talking about it (Matthew O'Toole today) and it's possibilities and are not spelling out UI policy either., just what they'd like to see as policy themselves and they are prepared to take part in forums to discuss and debate.

Nobody can set policy in stone at this consultative phase.
Unfair to say that is all the work they have done too. Just one link giving their policy position which is missing from your list, there are more:

Sinn Féin Policy Documents - Sinn Féin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124524606#Comment_124524606

And there we have it in black and white. You think a UI should be based on nothing more than a sectarian headcount, everyone else can fcuk off. Remind me of why you consider NI to be a failed state again? Surely it wasn't because it was based on a sectarian headcount which told anyone else to fcuk off?

Engage positively? Pot and kettle sir!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124524712#Comment_124524712

I didn't tell anyone to 'fcuk off'.

I responded to someone who was intent on telling those who want a UI to 'fcuk off'.

Nobody is going to waste time trying to convince inveterate anti UIers, no matter what they claim they are.

I have made my point and illustrated it with links for someone who seems to have missed them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124524769#Comment_124524769

Towards-a-United-Ireland.pdf

All is forgiven, there is a plan, though it would seem that SF are far more open to debate with 'belligerents' than you are.

Some more than conciliatory proposals being suggested here, most importantly that they be resolved PRIOR to reunification. Have to say I agree with it, why isn't it front and centre of SF policy?

@downcow it's worth a read.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124524911#Comment_124524911

'debate' with 'belligerents' is a contradiction in terms.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124524964#Comment_124524964

'The agreement of a significant section of
people who are now described as unionists is
required for the building of a united Ireland.'

Matt Carthy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124525012#Comment_124525012

Yes, no problem engaging with moderate Unionism. Belligerents of any flag/ideology, nope.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124525025#Comment_124525025

Pre-eminent dismissal of engagement with the likes of Jamie Bryson is not my idea of a 'united' Ireland. Anyone who thinks it is, is as responsible for the perpetitude of 'partition' as they are imo.

You constantly accuse others of being partitionist based on a now imaginary border, yet partition people who live on this island simply because they don't agree with you.

Which is the more rational view?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124525215#Comment_124525215

I dont accuse. If you constantly dismiss discussion points in a UI conversation, constantly dismiss calls for a Plan to be made or try to spin tge constitution then for that moment in time you are partitionist i.e. you want partition to persist

You can become somone who is no longer partitionist, just as you can reject republicanism nationalism, Unionism ir loyalism.
No point telling me you are proUI if you are constantly espousing partitionism.