The post got a mod warning, the charter states that we should report an offending post rather than engage with it.
Its almost like you're looking for something to be outraged with.
Two Irish teams in European finals, with three teams qualified for the URC playoffs, and all this thread can muster is another rerun about who said what about which player…..
I'm sure that all involved in this think that they're making valid points, settling scores, defending their chosen player or whatever, but surely to christ you guys see how utterly pointless this back and forth has been?
Speaking as someone that backed trying out Prendergast, I thought that the best thing about Crowley firmly taking hold of the jersey is that I won't have to wade through pages of the same auld shite about the two of them, but apparently not…..
The Crowley injury, coupled with the 10 situation at Leinster, does not bode well for Ireland coming into the Summer fixtures.
With Crowley putting some daylight behind him and the others during the 6 Nations, I really hope he is fit for the upcoming games so he can build on those performances.
If he's not, Farrell has a big decision on his hands. Does he go back to Sam? Or give Frawley a go, who he hasn't seemed to favour since the NZ cameo? Or Harry Byrne who he's never seemed to favour?
It might come down to form, and how they fare over the next few weeks. Personally, I'm hoping Sam starts this weekend, tho you could probably make a case for any of them to start.
Coming into next season, Carbery comes into the picture. The usual big questions marks over his ability to remain fit, and coming back from his current injury, but I think come the AI's, if he's back and fit, he could be an option for the 22 jersey.
Yes, the Crowley injury is definitely concerning, especially as the next few tens in line are in currently showing terrible form. Hopefully he comes back in good form himself, otherwise the next few matches will be exceptionally trying.
Ideally, we'd have the next available ten playing a few minutes near the end of every game, but of course, that's going to depend on how we're doing overall.
Carbery….. I don't know. I don't see any investment in minutes going his way, the man has talent, but cannot stay fit at all, and honestly I think that's one of the main requirements that Farrell looks for.
Or Harry Byrne who he's never seemed to favour?
This isn’t really true actually. IIRC, he had him in as a development player in his first ever Ireland squad in 2020. He then capped him twice in 2021 vs USA and Argentina when was very much behind his brother at Leinster. He then brought him to NZ in 2022, again ahead of Ross, who was ahead of him at Leinster. So there was a time when Farrell rated him very highly.
I think what Farrell will do this summer is start Frawley at 10 v Aus and NZ. I don’t think he’ll threaten Crowley as our starting 10, but he’ll likely be our no.22 at the World Cup, and getting him minutes at 10 against decent opposition could be very important. Then against Japan, he might see it as a nice game to rebuild Prendergast’s confidence. Maybe Harry goes as 3rd choice, but you could also take a punt in a Jack Murphy or Sean Naughton.
This isn’t really true actually.
He's had 4 caps in 6 years under Farrell, totalling 90 minutes, never starting a game.
That doesn't at all strike me as someone he's ever rated very highly.
When you frame it like that, no, obviously not.
But come on, from 2020-2022, he consistently went against the Leinster coaches and regularly included him in squads and picked him ahead of guys who were playing far more regularly like Burns, R.Byrne and Carty. And I remember at the time how it annoyed a lot of people how Farrell kept picking him ahead of guys deemed more deserving. He took him on the NZ tour with the intention of starting the 2 Māori games, only for him to get injured and Frawley start both. He quite clearly rated him very highly at that stage and kept trying to get him involved despite him being very injury prone. Recently not so much, after Crowley and Prendergast have come through.
Harry Byrne's selection at the time was more a function of how underwhelming the other options were. More a case of "why not give him a shot"
I think Farrell saw Harry Byrne the way so many of us did at the time - he saw the potential and skillset, but ultimately his performances haven't delivered, and there is nothing to suggest he has faith in him over the past while.
He came into the 6Ns after a good run of form, and didn't feature then in the tournament - it's very difficult to think his performances since then (especially against Toulon and Bordeaux) will have changed that outlook, though he may well still tour if Crowley is out.
Billy Burns has three more caps than Harry Byrne.
I could also phrase it as "almost twice as many caps as Harry Byrne" if I wanted to be dramatic, but I think the point is Farrell never rated either as really good enough.
Harry Byrne was 22 years old, 3rd choice (at best) at his province, yet was consistently getting selected for Ireland squads ahead of older, more experienced players, despite playing very little rugby and being injured regularly.
If that doesn’t say that Farrell, at least for a period, rated him, I honestly don’t know what does. Doesn’t mean he thought he was the next Sexton. But he obviously saw something he liked. I’ll leave it there
Do you realise that things change over time? Harry Byrne went to Bristol last year and enhanced his reputation. He's been playing well for Leinster.
He'll get a shot at some stage and if he performs well he'll get more time. If he doesn't then that's that.
I’m not pushing for Harry Byrne to get picked
It would be an old/over the hill/injury-prone group of centres for the July games if McCloskey, Ringrose, Aki and Henshaw are the players selected. McCloskey's been first rate, but the other three have question marks over them, I think it's fair to say. I think Postlethwaite replacing Henshaw is probably the way to go. Osborne's in the mix too, but might be considered primarily a fullback.
I'd be fine with playing Postlethwaite ahead of Osborne at 12. Aki is on the decline. He's good for a few carries for connacht and he still makes ground, but he'll probably be too old for international rugby in a year from now. Henshaw is similarly good for a few carries.
But just carrying and making meters a few times in game isn't enough. The real value comes from players doing unexpected things on top of their core job. Winning the breaking ball, running good support lines, winning tackle/contact that they shouldn't win. Those players are very experienced at their core roles but they don't add the unexpected value any more.
I'd be fine with investing in the likes of Postlethwaite
If I was Farrell, I'd be very tempted to leave all 4 home. Aki and Henshaw are over the hill, and should've been jettisoned last season. Ringrose just doesn't deliver for me, and seems to get selected more by default than anything else. McCloskey is brilliant, but given his age, might not hurt to be judicious with his usage. He'd probably be mad keen to play though, given how long he's been behind other players.
We have so many young centres in form, who we should be blooding with a view towards the WC. The lack of threat from our centres, McCloskey aside, has been a big part of our issues in attack since the last WC. We use our wingers to provide the line breaks that other teams get from their centres.
Osborne has been a disappointment at 12 so far, hopefully that's more reflective of Leinster's poor attack. At least one of Osborne, Frawley, Postlewaithe, Gavin, Forde or Tector should be starting every international for the rest of the season, injuries permitting.
You can bet any centrally contracted player wont be left at home to rest up.
Osbourne will play all of them internationals either as a starter or sub.
RWC centres...Aki,Henshaw,Ringrose & Stu Mc with Osbourne as back up, possibly Frawley as well depending how his Connacht time goes.
That would be an unmitigated disaster of a selection. I can't believe Farrell would be so blinded by loyalty or sentiment to think they are up to the task.
Ringrose & Stu are certs to start & i'd be amazed if Henshaw didnt go, i'm more doubtful on Aki.
I just can't see centrally contracted players not being bled for the last drop they've to give, wheather we think they are good enough or not
Yeah, I wish we had a young player who could take the jersey off GR, but he is still far better than any of the alternatives.
What other alternatives are there though? Was thinking about it yesterday, for most of his career, he's had pretty much no competition for the jersey. Henshaw would've been, but since he was elite at 12 and 13, he just shifted inside. Hume seemed to get injured everytime he was in good enough form to get looked at, Olding was a ****, and Munster haven't produced a centre in decades.
We've got two very talented 13s over in Connacht. You've all heard of Hugh Gavin but while he was out injured Harry West stepped in and was outstanding.
The Connacht lads are promising and Postlethwaite is in the mix with Irleand A at least. He's 24 and a unit, not sure what his ultimate standard is, also Tector at Leinster has played 13 afaik, he is very skilled. West is exciting at Connacht, he's impressed a lot of people over th last couple months. Anyway, about time some of these lads are given a run.
Although I would rate him primarily as a 12, Postlethwaite has played a few times at 13 this season. Would rather see him at inside centre, but there's so much traffic there.
Hume looked like he was going to get back to his best this season, but - inevitably - was injured quite a bit towards the end.
We actually look ok at centre if some of the lads above are thrown in and given a few chances. McCloskey is clear first choice and Ringrose is still probably first choice 13 but I would definitely be looking to at least have Postlethwaite, Hume, Tector in a training squad to have a look. Gavin is a unit but is poor defensively, very young so this is not a huge issue imo at this stage of his development. A pity he picked up that injury last weekend. I haven't seen a huge amount of West so can't comment. Dan Kelly looks a good player also. Hugh Cooney is a good young physical player. Has been injured a bit this season and wouldn't be ready quite yet but at 22 has lots of potential.
Frawley and Osbourne will be around also who can play centre so I would hope both Henshaw and Aki are left at home for the summer to recuperate after the season.
This was my team from a few weeks back (before URC Round 18), and going to make a couple of injury adjusted tweaks to it:
Hookers:
LHPs:
THPs:
Locks:
Back Row:
Scrum Half:
Out Half:
Centre:
Back Three:
Development Players: Bryn Ward, Ben Murphy
Development Players:
Assumed injured: Jacob Stockdale, Jack Boyle, Mack Hansen, Ryan Baird, Paddy McCarthy, Shayne Bolton
Thinking
I wouldn't bring Zac Ward, he's been really poor in defense too many times. Needs to improve that aspect before he can be looked at, same as Kenny. Lowry deserves a call up, he's been excellent this season. One of the best back 3 players in the country imo. Disagree on Prendergast, Byrne is still comfortably better, if only because he can tackle. The difference in effort between his hit on Woki and Prendergast's flap couldn't be more stark.
Can't see how you can put Edogbo ahead of Izuchukwu, other than a nebulous view of potential. Izzy has been excellent and with Baird's absence, he brings an athletic profile sorely lacking. Edogbo just hasn't shown the consistent performances and stamina to prove he's ready for international duty. I'd take both if possible, but Izzy should be in line to compete for the starting 6 shirt, along with Prendergast and Conan. Honestly wouldn't be against them leaving Conan out of the squad.
Lowry is not a winger, and I don't see them looking at him at full back when they have Keenan and Osborne there.
If not Zac Ward, what wingers are you bringing?
I agree Ward has weaknesses: his defence, kicking and fielding are all below par, but he's also big and strong and fast, and scores tries. It's worth taking a closer look at him.
Izuchukwu and Edogbo aren't playing the same position; hence the split. Edogbo is a pure TH lock, of which we are lacking. If he's healthy, it absolutely makes sense to bring him again.
Izuchukwu is another tweener hybrid / LH lock / blindside. He's competing with lots of players, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him tour, Farrell has liked him in the past.
I like Ward too, but I don't think he's shown the ability to perform at that level yet unfortunately. Had a horrorshow vs Montpelier, and previously for Ireland A. Lowry is class, and I'd much rather him at FB than Osborne tbh. He's a very talented player, and plays above his stature. His ability to step in at 10 too makes him a very versatile option. Osborne should be at 12/13 going forward exclusively imo. Both Keenan and JOB are superior at 15 alone. With respect Edogbo and Izuchukwu, if I can only take one, I'm taking Izzy. He's a proven performer, and can play in the 2nd row. He's just a superior player at this point in time, and should've had more game time in the 6Ns imo. Happy to see Edogbo get squad time as a development player, but I don't think he has the fitness and skills yet to contribute much at international level yet.
I dunno if he does (Lowry) tbh - he's a good rugby player but a fundamentally poor athlete at this level. He's brave and committed etc, but it doesn't make any difference. I'd have no confidence in him playing 15 for Ireland in a big test match.
As I said before - I don't see it as an Edogbo or Izuchukwu - they don't play the same position. And, fwiw, Izuchukwu missed a lot of time this year with injuries too.
I like Izuchukwu, I think he's really talented, but we're not short of big athletic rangy sixes - we have Ryan Baird, Cian Prendergast, Tom Ahern, Alex Soroka, and probably James McNabney coming back into the fold (and not to mention Jack Conan is still the incumbent at 6).
We are short of heavy TH locks after Joe McCarthy, so we need to get some minutes and exposure into Edogbo IMO.
