Finally someone is calloing out the return scam.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/government-urged-to-reform-or-disband-shambolic-re-turn-scheme-after-e500000-bin-raiding-bill-1905390.html
Never thought I'd agree with Peadar.
Tóibín had also questioned the amount of money accumulated by Re-turn, the private company that operates the DRS, claiming that €103 million in unredeemed deposits was “resting in its account”.
and
Tóibín said the DRS deposit was “like a tax” on consumers, except it doesn’t go towards paying for hospitals, education, housing and other public services.“Instead, it goes to a company and to CEO salaries that they refuse to publish,” he said.
Tóibín said the DRS deposit was “like a tax” on consumers, except it doesn’t go towards paying for hospitals, education, housing and other public services.
“Instead, it goes to a company and to CEO salaries that they refuse to publish,” he said.
Reminds me of the M50 toll bridge. In incredibly stupid idea. Maybe I'm just getting old.
There's already a Return thread.
By the way, how was the M50 bridge a bad idea?
I hate to see myself agreeing with engineerws but they're right on this one about the whole DRS sh**e and the incredible stupidity with the M50 toll bridge began with making it so narrow (forward thinking, Ireland, duh!), not putting a timeline for returning it to public ownership and then paying a bloody fortune to buy it back. Having a bridge there was a good idea however.
Ditch the M50 toll.
Christ lads you’d have no way of raising tax revenue if it was up to all of you.
The DRS isn't supposed to be a tax, but we now have a private company with €100 million of tax payers money.
While we keep hearing about how many bottles and cans the DRS had collected they never announced how less is coming from recycling bins and more importantly what is the decrease in regular bins, they claimed we were dumping them.
The data I really want to see is how much our consumption of non recyclable refuse sacks has gone up. We may be collecting more bottles and cans but every time I go into a shop with a DRS machine 90% of people returning use black sacks which they dump beside the machine. They banned single use plastic yet the DRS is responsible for a huge increase in single use plastic and the illegal dumping of the single use plastic.
Under the guise of Uisce Eireann and TFI, amongst others, public services are being privatised by stealth.
Did you know that the state did not own the M50 up to the bridge? One kilometere of land either side of the bridge was in private hands. So the plans and route were in place but strangely the state didn't own one kilometere either side of the site of the proposed bridge, nor did they compulsorily purchase it! Liam Lawlor was all over it. That should tell you all you need to know.
As for the return scheme, I think it stinks and wonder if similar revelations will come out in the years to come.
Another cost of the scheme…
End the DRS and Dublin City saves 500 000? I don't think so.
Meh!!!, Toibin and Aontu are generally anti-environmentalist, anti green, climate change denying right wing loons, so they wouldn't have much grá for the scheme to begin with.
It's also 500k since February 2024 which doesn't sound all that bad in the grand scheme of things. Also, while I don't condone people making a mess, recovering bottles from bins to put back in circulation (and get money to purchase other things) is probably better than having them just thrown in landfill or shipped abroad in general waste.
it was reported that clean-up operations following instances of bin-raiding by people scavenging for cans and bottles had cost Dublin City Council €500,000 since the introduction of the scheme in February 2024
If they were already cleaning the streets on the regular, like they should be doing, then this wouldn't be an extra cost.
"Quick, someone's emptied a load of bins on Grafton St……let's mobilise a crack team to clean it up and put it all back in the bins, at a cost of thousands………..or let's wait until the 8pm street-sweeping takes place the same way it does every night, and we won't need to pay anythng extra".
Or… let's just accept this was another brain fart from a party renowned for them, and unwind it.
Let's not forget that we ALREADY had very successful green bin recycling uptake in place before this nonsense (so much so that the companies have increased charges since to compensate themselves for the loss), and that all this has done is introduce yet another means of enriching a private entity - that's it.
Of course, if anyone had looked at say the Dublin Bus change refund scheme which required people to travel into HQ on O'Connell Street to get their refunds, they would have seen what would happen - lots of money was left unclaimed there year on year as well.
It was a bad idea at the start, it's still a bad idea - now with even more littering!
The pople bin raiding should be fined but that won’t happen.
If someone is so desperate for cash that they're raiding bins for bottles and cans, I very much doubt they have the means to pay a fine.
Sure the people doing it would just claim they cant afford to pay it and the then they will be told not to do it again and sent on their way.
I know there is a group of people who are making a business out of it and leave the place in a state after raiding the bins.
The two aren't comparable. One requires the buyer to return a drinks container to an authorised collection point, of which there are many. The reasoning behind the campaign is because there were too many containers being disposed of in landfill. If you don't want to be bothered having to return the container at an authorised location then you have two choices: leave the container somewhere (e.g. a rubbish bin) or else just don't buy a container that is subject to the charge. Part of the core logic is to encourage behavioural change.
Comparing that to the DB refund is being deliberately obtuse because the DB refund meant you had to go out of your way to get the refund. There aren't refund options at almost every supermarket, etc. But that would ruin your moan, wouldn't it?
I feel like any discussion of the DRS that doesn't acknowledge it is a system used, that is both effective and popular, across large parts of Europe, including in many countries we would be frequently told are better run.
Independent surveys by IBAL and Coastwatch report a significant reduction in littering of containers.
Cleaner cities bring nationwide reduction in litter levels in 2025 | IBAL https://share.google/3nqQfCmjK0NsN2CBm
All Ireland Survey (Autumn 2024) | Coastwatch Europe https://share.google/ZPRNCOVmMzfC8kVfa
These show that less containers are being discarded in the environment.
The issue of "bin raiders" still needs to be addressed.
It would help if people took responsibility and returned their containers rather than putting them in general litter bins.
A simple split bin could solve a lot of this.
There are already bins around Dublin city with a rail around them that fits cans and bottles perfectly. People leave returnable containers on the rail instead of putting them into the bin, and they are usually picked up very quickly.
That means nobody has to rummage through the rubbish, the bin contents don’t get dragged out onto the street, and the council avoids expensive clean ups. It’s a small design change, but a very practical one. Separate the returnable cans and bottles from the general waste, make them easy to access, and the problem largely disappears.
Unfortunately, it wouldn't. If you observe people placing stuff into split bins, they often dont give a crap and I'd be surprised if the recycle bins aren't usually contaminated and end up in landfill.
The reality is that people know they should recycle cans and plastic bottles but they often just cant be arsed
The problem is actually the single use plastics industry Drinking from these PET bottles is bad for our health, bad for the environment in so many ways and expensive and bad for consumers Recycling and blaming the consumer is the strategy of industry to allow them to keep selling us water that we can get for free from our taps (not actually free, we pay for it in tax) I'm old enough to remember how 'hilarious' it was when Ballygowan started selling water to irish people' People used to just bring water with them if they were out for the day.
Yes, the "bin collars" which have been part funded by Re-turn.
Unfortunately some are just dumping rubbish in them or using them to stub out cigarettes.
It's the growing pains of working our way into the system.
As you say when used the right way they are part of the solution.
Improved bin design and split bins can help too but you have inappropriate use too..
In European cities you will see under ground bins which are inaccessible to scavengers.
Just a stainless steel bin on the surface with a large chamber under the pavement.
Another initiative which is helping is the DCC ban on plastic bags of refuse being left out for collection.
Dublin City Council removes plastic bags from 110 northside streets | Dublin City Council https://share.google/aPIST3C0TgxGM0TRt
In Ireland where fossil not nuclear is the electrical base load, it's hard to argue against incineration of plastic. If you're willing to accept the initial environmental mining destruction for cans at least they're recyclable.
Cans and plastics are treated the same even though one can be easily recycled in the green bin. The obvious thing would be penalise plastic and encourage cans.
The amount of waste associated with the scheme, people driving to a center, the machines built and installed all over Ireland, the electricity 247 for the bins versus removal by the bin trucks which are coming anyway.
The social cost. It's at least 10 minutes queuing. Small houses stuck with a load of stinky drinking items taking up space.
A simple five cent government tax like the plastic bag levy would have been much better, instead we have a small group profiting hugely off the Irish people.
I remember the m50 before the physical toll was removed. Tailbscks for miles at the bridge because the government gave that infrastructure to a private cartel. Mothers spending an extra hour commuting instead if wity their children. It was madness. This is madness.
Both of them should be discourages as much as possible. As for "easily recycled in the green bin", a key issue was that much of the plastic and alu containers were either put into the regular bin or were littered.
Honestly, this is just moaning for the sake of it. Most people don't just drive to the centre, they visit the return machines when they do their shopping, etc. Your comparison to the bin trucks again ignores the fact that there was a lot of bottles & cans not being disposed of correctly.
Ah stop with the nonsense. I've never had to queue for ten minutes nor have I seen long queues at the machines. As for the stinky items taking up space, maybe rinse them out when you're washing your dishes. We've absolutely no odour problems from our collection so maybe it is something you're doing differently!
How exactly would a tax or levy encourage people to recycle? (hint: it wouldn't!)
Excellent points. In that case, I think the bin collars are the way to go. They don’t have a bottom, just a thin rail that stops cans and bottles from falling through, so people don't dump general rubbish into them and it's difficult to stub cigarettes out in them with no flat surface and a perfect flat ashtray on the top of the bin.
I genuinely think they’re the way forward. I’ve seen people use them regularly for exactly their intended purpose. I’ve never seen them filled with other rubbish, and they’re usually cleared almost immediately by people happy to recycle the cans and bottles for a few cent.
It’s a simple solution that keeps rubbish from being pulled all over the streets while also making the return items easy to access.
Here's a pic, ashtray on top for stubbing out cigarettes, large opening for general rubbish and an obvious rail around the bin for cans and bottles.
This is bollocks. UI and TFI are public bodies. There was never a chance of Irish Water being privatised, it was far-left scaremongering nonsense
I know Toibin can be quite the thicko / scaremongering arse when he wants to be, but this a new low even for him.
Tóibín said the DRS deposit was “like a tax” on consumers
It's a very strange sort of "tax" where I can get the full amount back just for the asking.
In fact, it's not _at all_ like a tax 🙄
Days after the electorate deem Toibin's Aontu as politically irrelevant in DC & GW, he comes out trying to look relevant with bogus nonsense which he hopes to fool a few gullible people with.
You know the picture is a fake or at least made up for a press release?
Yes, of course, if you look closely you’ll see there’s no branding on the bottles or cans. It was a 2025 press release photo, not some candid street shot. I’m not really sure what difference that makes though, because the points still stand.
The real ones on the street look almost identical, except the cans and bottles obviously have manufacturer branding on them. The concept works the same either way. People leave return containers on the rail instead of digging through bins, they get collected quickly, and rubbish stays inside the bin instead of spread all over the pavement.
I'm away for a couple of weeks, If you have your doubts about their existence you can take some candid shots of the real ones and post them up for clarity? The one I use is on Capel St. Mary St. junction.
I remember the m50 before the physical toll was removed.
A lot of us do but there is no connection between the M50 toll and DRS.
