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Any books about the Dublin and Monaghan bombing that go by the FG belief it was IRA not Loyalists

George White

After learning via Patrick O Donovan that many people including most Fine Gael people believe that it was IRA not Loyalists who were behind the Dublin and Monaghan bombing, are there any books that go and elaborate on this theory?

It Feels amiss we weren't taught this in school especially when I did my leaving in an FG government. Maybe because it is a crackpot theory. But it is a crackpot theory seemingly most of the government believe or rather want to believe.

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csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058437111/any-books-about-the-dublin-and-monaghan-bombing-that-go-by-the-fg-belief-it-was-ira-not-loyalists

Never heard that crackpot theory. Only debate about whether or not the UK/N.I security forces were involved or not.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058437111/any-books-about-the-dublin-and-monaghan-bombing-that-go-by-the-fg-belief-it-was-ira-not-loyalists

I have three different books on the bombings and I had never heard that story until the blueshirts trotted it out a little while back.

I very much doubt anyone actually believes it. Including them

hoodie6029

I remember Royston Brady’s career effectively ended by making mad claims about the Dublin Bombing. Something about his father tending the wounded or something IIRC.
How times have changed, politicians spreading conspiracy theories with no recourse now.
(in fairness, Royston was never destined for greatness anyway, despite his designs on it)

George White

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124397570#Comment_124397570

It feels like the sort of thing people believe not because they do, but because 'they are entitled to do so because of free speech'.

See also certain people on both sides of the trans debate.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124397619#Comment_124397619

His dads taxi being stolen, I think, was the unverifiable thing

George White

Like many here, anytime I hear Royston Brady, I can only see Royston Vasey (the town AND Chubby Brown).

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058437111/any-books-about-the-dublin-and-monaghan-bombing-that-go-by-the-fg-belief-it-was-ira-not-loyalists

There's no evidence that "most" or even many in Fine Gael believe that it was the IRA who were behind it.

From a good bit of googling, the only thing i can find to support your claim is that in 2017, Fine Gael Junior Finance Minister Patrick O'Donovan, in an interview suggested it, and was widely condemned for this.

Hotblack Desiato

PO'D will slowly strangle himself with the noose of his own arrogance and incompetence and nobody in FF or indeed FG will shed a tear.

So thread fail, it's not an "FG belief".

The bombings did demonstrate a capability the famously disorganised "loyalists" never had either before or since, which of course raises its own questions.

The net effect of the bombings was to ensure the passage of emergency anti-terrorist legislation, hardly in the PIRA's interest.

Qui bono? UK government.

Hotblack Desiato

OP do you have a source for the assertion in the opening post? apart from the piss-weak Sunday Independent article where he doesn't actually attribute responsibility to PIRA for the bombings?

https://web.archive.org/web/20170925184923/http%3A//www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ff-voters-are-alarmed-by-talk-of-sf-deal-36074757.html

I still think he's a twat btw.

Thread fail squared

Francis McM

As there was no warning given for the Dublin and Monaghan bombings in May 1974, some people may be of the opinion they were pIRA bombs which were assembled south of the border - as many were - and which were on the way north, perhaps when the drivers stopped for someting to eat, and which exploded pre-maturely, for whatever reason.

The vast vast majority - over 99% - of the 20,000 or whatever bombs exploded during the "troubles" were designed, made and exploded by Republicans.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438378#Comment_124438378

Stopped for something to eat in four different locations at roughly the same time and they all went off prematurely, three of them nearly simultaneously?

There is some level of delusion required to believe this.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438389#Comment_124438389

Perhaps interfered with by double agent / informer? Lots of murky going on. How do you think republicans got so much expertise in bomb making in the first place?

myfreespirit

Stopped for something to eat in four different locations at roughly the same time and they all went off prematurely, three of them nearly simultaneously?
There is some level of delusion required to believe this.

Delusional indeed.

The complete failure of Irish authorities to identify the people who carried out the horrific, almost simultaneously detonated bombs in Dublin city centre suggests, to me at least, that the government of the day may have decided not to pursue the matter very vigorously - perhaps because the trail of evidence pointed to the British security services...

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438378#Comment_124438378

I don't believe in taking a pop at a poster rather than the post, so I will just say that is one of the daftest things I've ever read. Even on boards

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438378#Comment_124438378

Got any sources for any of this? In particular the 99% claim?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438635#Comment_124438635

I do not think anyone is disputing most bombs during the troubles were exploded by Republicans. You just have to remember the almost daily new reports from N.I. then. Many were on "economic targets" eg Bishopsgate bombing, and Bloody Friday 1972, when the pIRA exploded 22 bombs in Belfast in 75 minutes, killing 9 people. Many part time and off suty and sometimes retired security force personnell were killed by booby trap bombs under cars : if you saw someone "accidentally" dropping their keys and looking under a car, it was a republican bomb they were looking for, you can be sure, The loyalist paramilitaries tended to use firearms rather than explosives. By 1972, the IRA was the primary user of car bombs, and by 1973, it was reported that 90% of homemade explosives originated from the Republic of Ireland, with the IRA responsible for the vast majority of explosions. Leaving aside Monaghan and Dublin bombings, if you think of all the biggest bombs the ones that spring to mind were atrocities like Enniskillen, Omagh, Warrington, Birmingham, Guildford, Warrenpoint, Old Bailey, Aldershot, Oxford st., Mullaghmore, Brighton, Bloody Friday, Dropping Well, Chelsea Barracks, Hyde Park, Kings Cross, Heathrow, Downing Street, Claudy etc etc - all carried out by Republicans. The loyalists had generally not the military knowledge or safe areas to develop bombs etc.

[Deleted User]

That's not what you said, you made a claim with over 99% and a figure of explosions. I asked for a source on that, if it were true I'm sure you could pull up the information easily enough.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438770#Comment_124438770

I mention a figure of the total number of explosions, which is consistent with what wiki says, combined with counless petrol bombs, nail bombs etc during rioting, which could also be called explosions.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058437111/any-books-about-the-dublin-and-monaghan-bombing-that-go-by-the-fg-belief-it-was-ira-not-loyalists

No fan of FG but I seriously doubt 'most' believe this.

What's the actual evidence on it?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438821#Comment_124438821

You’re moving the goalposts.

You originally claimed over 99% of around 20,000 bombs were carried out by republicans. That’s a very specific statistical claim.

Now you’re talking about “explosions” in general and including things like petrol bombs during riots, which isn’t the same thing at all.

If you cannot provide the proof for these claims, then it shouldn’t have been presented as fact.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438845#Comment_124438845

The OP is clearly satire, making fun of the assertion from O'Donovan that most FG voters believe the Dublin/Monaghan bombings were the work of republicans.

Not even FG voters would believe that

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438854#Comment_124438854

Nat at all. If you google it you will see a figure of 16,000 mentioned. Add in petrol bombs etc, and I'd say you could have the guts of 20,000. Anyway makes no difference to me, you are splitting hairs.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438940#Comment_124438940

hmmm maybe, not seeing the satire myself

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438949#Comment_124438949

It is not “splitting hairs” to ask for evidence when a very specific statistical claim is made.

When pressed for a source for your figures, the claim has shifted a number of times, first “what wiki says”, then to a broader definition of “explosions” including petrol bombs and riot-related incidents in place of bombings, and now to “I’d say” estimates.

That's moving the goalposts away from a specific factual claim into something increasingly vague and untestable.

If someone wants to make claims like that and pass it off as fact, then it needs to have verifiable sources and consistent definitions. Otherwise it becomes a selective framing exercise rather than a serious argument.

This kind of shifting between definitions and unsupported estimates is exactly what undermines constructive discussion of the troubles and any attempts at reconciling the past.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124439151#Comment_124439151

If you google it, nobody has come up with a precise figure of the number of explosions during the troubles. All I was doing was quoting various estimates. Google is your friend if you can do better.

One point that was made was that many IRA bombs were assembled south of the border and moved north. It is also true that over 100 IRA people were killed by their own bombs when they exploded.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438378#Comment_124438378

If some people are of that opinion, those people must be complete and utter morons.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124439404#Comment_124439404

to say nothing of the 100+ people killed by their own bombs, which exploded prematurely. R.i.p. to all innocent victims.

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124398108#Comment_124398108

He was proven right. There was a report of it in the Irish Times the day after.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124439423#Comment_124439423

Desperate spinning of wheels trying to reverse out of your complete shite-talking position

Give us a break ffs

Do you really for one moment think it's remotely credible that the synchronised explosion of three bombs in Dublin city centre on a Friday evening was actually IRA lads going north stopping for a sambo? 🙄

To even suggest such a thing is stupid beyond belief

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438821#Comment_124438821

Petrol bombs could not be called explosions. On account that they do not involve explosive.
The same what that a water balloon is not a bomb/explosion.

The figure named by wiki is 10k not 20k.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124438949#Comment_124438949

20k is a very inflated number. Increasing by a factor of 2 is bit more than splitting hairs. But regardless, whether we use 10k or 20k. That's the total by both sides. On what basis do you get from there to 99% republican?

The idea the loyalists carried out only 100-200 bombing, include petrol bombs, is delusional. If you believe that you are very little knowledge of the troubles.