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Has urban Ireland finally a voice?

John_Rambo

Leo Varadkar, someone who’s held the highest office in the country and undoubtedly has insights the rest of us don’t, pointed out.. horror of horrors!! That urban Ireland supports rural Ireland, as happens in most countries.
It’s not exactly a radical statement, it's normally how modern economies work. Cities generate the bulk of economic activity and tax revenue, and that inevitably feeds into wider national spending.

But judging by some of the articles and reactions since, it’s an uncomfortable truth that people don’t particularly want to engage with, instead, the truth is pushed back on, dismissed, or argued against.

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Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124425525#Comment_124425525

OK - and wouldnt your colleague appreciate if there was high speed trainline from Dublin to Gorey?

I'm sure commuting is one of the banes of his life.

When we say Dublin needs investment, a primary reason is improving the transport infrastructure. Better trainlines from Mullingar to Dublin. Better trainlines from Gorey to Dublin. And every other commuter town around the city.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124424182#Comment_124424182

Because of the topography of the land combined with the low population density mean it's not cost effective for the service providers to put masts everywhere.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124425895#Comment_124425895

his commuting is self-inflicted. he moved from clondalkin to gorey for no reason other than he wanted to live in a one off house surrounded by a half acre lawn.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124426300#Comment_124426300

yep, i have friends that i grew up with who bought in cavan and laois because they didn't like what they would get for the same price in dublin and would no way have bought where i did in D5 as it's smaller and you see some kids in tracksuits, so often it's a choice. i'd take the public transport and 25 minute cycle into town myself but each to their own.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124425895#Comment_124425895

I'm sure commuting is one of the banes of his life.

He can fix that, pretty much instantly if he wants.

He'd have to give up all the stuff that he's traded for it though……house prices, detached dwelling, plenty of room/land to look after. As another poster said, that's self-inflicted and, literally, his choice. We shouldn't be listening to him or kowtowing to his demands any ore than we should entertain similar gripes from some junkie who lives in the flats but wants a 6 bed, detached mansion with all the bells and whistles.

Why should city folk have to pay for his high speed trainline while he turns his nose up at living in a city?

The quickest way to kill this entire argument would be to de-federalise the public funds. Ringfence everything….all taxes raised in Dublin are spent in Dublin only. Same with Laois, Galway, Roscommon etc. The Healy-Raes would be up in arms before the ink was dry on any such proposal, and they wouldn't be alone.

magicbastarder

anyway, the reason i mentioned him was that another poster suggested that we should count his income tax as accruing in wexford; which i think skews the debate (a debate i think is largely spurious) - that wexford is paying its own way in this case. it's economic activity in dublin which is responsible for generating that tax income, not wexford.

or take it to an extreme; if 10,000 people who commute from wexford to their jobs in dublin, upped sticks and moved to wicklow; they are creating a greater drain on wicklow's resources but they've not started to contribute anything to the 'running' of wicklow.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124427731#Comment_124427731

A good point, well made.

It was the other poster I was aiming my own post at. It's a tad rich to be tugging at the heart strings over his commute when he's in a pickle of his own making. It's like giving the kids a choice between either watching a movie or getting ice-cream. Now that the movie is finished, our friend in Gorey is cribbing about not getting his choc ice.

Galwayguy35

I think it's great the townies are paying for us.

Long may it continue.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124424920#Comment_124424920

You think it's a conspiracy theory to think that a country has an urban centre that is designed to be the centre of economic activity?

Is it not what every country does?

My contention is not that rural Ireland doesn't depend on the money filtered through Dublin to maintain modern lifestyles.

My contention is that people - who happen to be in Dublin or come from Dublin - who hold it over the rest of the country that they "create" the wealth, like some badge of honour - really are just displaying the fact they know absolutely nothing about the management of a country. The fact a former Taoiseach came out with it is the most bizarre and scary of all.

whisky_galore

Why doesn't Leo just fúck off and enjoy his retirement or whatever gold plated pension he's got intead of trolling the country?

FruitSaladGuy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124428843#Comment_124428843

Can't think of a more dislikeable person in the country tbh.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124428843#Comment_124428843

That is him enjying his retirement.

More fool the people who react.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124428843#Comment_124428843

There you go, and thank you!!

Point illustrated perfectly in one sentence! This is exactly the sort of thing I’m talking about. Nasty, ill tempered, Trumpian, childish and completely dismissive of any view that doesn’t line up with your own.

The second someone says something supportive of urban Ireland it’s f**k off & pipe down. We see a much more respectful energy from urban Ireland when others are constantly shouting on behalf of rural Ireland.

No one tells them to disappear.

But when someone like Leo Varadkar speaks up, particularly on something like the disgraceful blockades ran by criminals, suddenly he’s “trolling the country” and should stay quiet. It’s the same double standard all the time. Urban voices get labelled divisive or told to shut up, rural voices get a free pass.

And the “gold plated pension” line is just a distraction. People like Tom Parlon, Noel Treacy, Éamon Ó Cuív, Denis Naughten, Enda Kenny are constantly in the media giving their take on things. You don’t get urban Ireland telling them to f**k off.

That’s respect and dignity that the real people of Ireland maintain, the people that keep the country running.

89897

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124429029#Comment_124429029

If you a very very bias view if you think its only coming via the rural side.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124429149#Comment_124429149

If you read it again, I never said it only comes from the rural side, that’s you reframing it to suit your argument. However the rural voice is much louder and far more tolerated, even when it’s aggressive or disruptive.

My point is how it’s treated. When it comes from rural voices it’s framed as community, tradition, standing up for themselves. When it comes from urban Ireland it’s suddenly ‘divisive’, ‘trolling’, or people are told to f**k off.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124428836#Comment_124428836

who hold it over the rest of the country that they "create" the wealth, like some badge of honour

Tell me, what do you think of the spas who are foaming at the mouth telling everyone that they "feed the country" and "we'd all starve without them"? There were quite a few at the forefront of the recent protests and this thread is chock full of them.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124428836#Comment_124428836

Urban Ireland does create the wealth, you said lt yourself.

We should not encourage division between urban and rural ireland and everyone has their part to play but it is still true to say that urban ireland, and especially dublin, contributes the large majority of tax revenue raised for the state.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124428836#Comment_124428836

You're trying to reframe what people are telling you. No, it’s not a conspiracy theory, every country has economic hubs. But you’re wrong to frame it as if it’s just Dublin and nothing else. There’s serious economic activity in Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford as well. There’s a lot of life outside the Pale, whether people like to admit it or not. The idea that everything is created in Dublin and handed out is just as off as pretending location doesn’t matter at all.

As for Leo Varadkar, he was pointing out where impact is felt most, not claiming superiority. The way people twist that into a badge of honour or an insult is the real problem.

And let’s be honest, the real audacity here was a group of blockading private operators trying to convince the country they run it, as if shutting down the capital gives them that authority. It doesn’t. It just exposed how quickly some people will shout “we keep the country afloat” when it suits.

It’s not Dublin versus the rest. It’s a network of cities and regions, and the country works because of all of them, not because one group decides to declare themselves in charge.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124429256#Comment_124429256

Yes, as it's designed to be.

It's like we all put our money in the bank because it's the most efficient and practical way to keep it safe. We don't then say well done to the bank for earning all that money.

Dubliners don't work any harder than the rest of the country, and vice versa.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124429235#Comment_124429235

So what's the point here?

The world needs farmers and people to deliver all the garbage being bought online.

So your point is we don't need Irish farmers because we have French farmers, Italian farmers, Brazilian farmers. That's brilliant. A brilliant point. I suppose you lose your sh*t as well when Indian farmers protest? Or the French?

Farming is the most important industry keeping the whole show on the road. The most basic need. It doesn't mean they should hold us all to ransom whenever they want, but I don't actually think they do. I think it takes a lot to make someone protest and sleep out for days on end away from their families and kids and home comforts.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124429291#Comment_124429291

So why were a small group of private business owners out claiming not only that they work harder, but that they’re the only “real workers” and the ones keeping the country afloat? (when they're clearly not) Did you call them out?? And more to the point, why were they allowed to hold the country to ransom to secure a special, one off tax deal that benefits them and them alone, while everyone else including the most vulnerable just picks up the tab?

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124429316#Comment_124429316

That's not my point at all. I've no idea why you're making sh1t up. Ironic that you accuse me of losing your **** as you completely miss the point, go on a rant and actually make my point for me.

I'm pointing out your hypocrisy at giving out about all the hyperbole, while shoving your own hyperbolic nonsense down everyone's throats. You don't like the city folk "who hold it over the rest of the country that they "create" the wealth, like some badge of honour". While simultaneously lionising the farmers "who keep the show on the road".

This is clearly, a giant load of bollocks. Both statements are untrue. Yet you're dismissive of one and championing the other. You're bemoaning the urban folk lording it over everyone because they generate the wealth while lording it over everyone because the rural folk feed the country, claiming it's the most important industry. Ignoring, for a start, that this is patently untrue………….This is the dictionary definition of a hypocrite.

I never said we don't need Irish farmers. Those are your words.

You don't actually think they hold the rest of us to ransom?……….WTF is this thread about then?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124429316#Comment_124429316

Most irish produced food is exported and most of the food we eat in ireland is imported.

We do need irish farmers and we do need to subsidise food production to ensure food security levels but we are producing far in excess of food security levels.

The big problem is 2030 when we start getting hit by the EU with carbon emission fines for over producing food that we never needed in the first place.

I dont know how the govt are going to address this other than helping farms diversify their output to solar or other renewables, instead of food production.

magicbastarder

maybe we don't need subsidies, maybe we need a ban on below cost selling again?

i remember at one point one of the supermarkets - might have been dunnes - were selling bags of carrots for 8c and a farmer's group formed a protest consisting of buying them all and giving them away to people coming into the supermarket, as a protest. that's a protest i think is wholly justified.

i know food poverty is a very real thing but supermarkets using fruit and veg as loss leaders has damaged farming here.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124429524#Comment_124429524

A below cost selling ban would have removed the impetus for various alcohol pricing rules. It was Michael Martin that got rid of the ban and was very proud of it, too.

The supermarkets agreed not to go to the single digit prices again - the UK ones still do at Christmas and sometimes Easter - but the 49/69c stuff is still below cost.

For Petes Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124429149#Comment_124429149

It absolutely is. There's a preciousness about farmers and people claiming to be representing rural Ireland when there are hard truths pointed towards them. How dare we, you know nothing outside the M50 etc etc.

2.2bn in supports they get. And yet they're constantly crying for more.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124429029#Comment_124429029

Well he was just setting up a rural vs urban fight and you took the bait.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124430782#Comment_124430782

No, you’re flipping it on yourself. I agree with him, and I’ve consistently argued for balance between urban and rural Ireland here on Boards, you've seen that. There was no “bait”. That’s something you’ve imagined because it suits the narrative.
The reality is this whole divide didn’t start with one comment. It started with a certain crowd claiming they’re superior, the “real workers”, the ones keeping the country afloat. That attitude has been bubbling away for years.

We saw it play out in full with the blockades. A small group of businesses holding the country to ransom for a cosy, one off deal the rest of us now fund. That’s not community, that’s self serving bullying dressed up as something noble. If anyone was baiting it was them.

Leo Varadkar simply called it out. That’s all he did.

People didn’t like hearing it, so suddenly it’s “divisive” or “bait”. It’s not. It’s just uncomfortable and you got emotional about it.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124427731#Comment_124427731

Which is precisely why we need a proper local taxation / property taxation system, not the piddling sum we have now

The abolition of domestic rates in 1977 has been a disaster, completely emasculated local authorities and contributed heavily to the property boom/bust, the after-effects of which we are still suffering from to this day

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124427731#Comment_124427731

I dont think anyone has confirmed if the income tax revenue is based on residential status or the location of the business.