Ya that's my opinion it shouldnt pass, do I still it won't ? Yes. It's unpredictable, it's single point of failure for data.
You've zero clue of the technology involved.
It's any wonder all of the Chinese cars brand new in this space utilise lidar. It's any wonder bmws defacto 2nd gen EV evolution vehicles which they are stacking the company future on utilise lidar.
My own car the seal shouldn't be allowed this type of driving even if it had the processing hardware. Why because it's camera based.
Say what you want but you've a selfish stake here which is the car driving you around whilst you do something else. The data doesn't seem to matter to you, the safety of other road users doesn't matter and nothing I say will matter either.
We are were we are
The Dutch are giving them a fair shake even with the behaviour of the company up to this point, but id base that the tech and it's unpredictable and ridiculously cheap view point of sensor will haunt Tesla as it should.
I've said all this before.
The joint intensive test programme started about 18 months ago. During the term and in this final phase, the RDW will look closely at the test results and the data will be analysed. During this final phase, our inspectors will assess all data and test results and after completion of this process, a decision will be made on the admission of the driver assistance system FSD Supervised. For the RDW, (traffic) safety is paramount.
Given the apparent extensive testing that's been conducted by the RDW, it would seem to me that we're not just in a case of a regulator being pressured to rubber stamp a system.
The testing and approval process within UNECE members has been about ensuring systems operate within a certain domain and meet defined criteria, criteria developed by multiple organisations from many member countries. I wouldn't put as much faith in this if the RSA was the competent authority approving the system, but I have seen no evidence to suggest that the RDW are a problem.
Thanks for confirming that your view is Tesla FSD supervised will never be passed in the EU. My view is that it will be passed, and soon enough. Maybe next month, maybe next quarter, maybe next year. Maybe even the year after. But sooner rather than later.
We will find out in due time who has been wrong all along and who has been right.
Vibes. Like the share price
It's a pity you are not a betting man. I'd be happy to bet that FSD supervised will be approved somewhere in the EU by 01/01/2029. If it isn't approved, I owe you €1000. If it is approved, you owe me €100. I'm not a betting man either but a free €100 would be tempting to me 😂
Oh we're moving to 'somewhere' in the EU now.
Seems you've changed tack since your last attempt to push me into gambling with you.
Why's that ? Vibes off ?
Maybe it'll be Hungary Orban loves an oul bribe or several.
Happy to make it NL then to alleviate your fears of foul play? Surely the €1000 must tempt you as you are certain that money would be yours if you accept the bet?
We've legislated this.
Youre now just doing this pantomime for clout chasing. Give yourself an oul thanks there whilst you're at it
Make it €100 from me vs €1 from you. I'm not known for wasting money. Why would I suggest such a risky bet? 😉
Sorry listermint you are rewriting history here now I CBA going back and pointing it out and I think Unkel has already done it. Anyway it's an important step on the journey for self driving however it ends up in its final guise.
It's the least important journey because your car nor his has the hardware required for it to be safe.
Maybe if Elon had not (probably personally) decided to divert from appropriate sensors then you'd already have FSD two years ago and this conversation would be mute.
Alas he didn't and he's a penny pinching clown show using the car company to pay for his other escapades. Maybe today's court case will quiten his cough for a bit , who knows. Perhaps the numbers coming in April filings . Let's see 🙈
Not safe according to listermint. Safe according to the real experts. Or so it will be once RDW approves it. Which you say will never happen.
By the time we have full unsupervised self driving I won't have this car so I don't really care , I'm not the one making definitive statements here then dancing on a pinhead or changing the subject !
Safe according to all the experts ?
Like whom?
None of the data calculated and provided by Tesla so far Indicates that their fsd supervised is safer than actual drivers. It's performed worse.
The data is all there.
I've bases my 'opinion' off of that
Youve purposefully chosen to ignore real data and make your own 'opinion' based off vibes and a penchant for gambling. You're not to be reasoned with. You hate the data because... Well your history of overly pro Tesla commentary.
Alas we live in an age where science research and data is vilified including expertise. So why stop now ! Woohoo! Let's go.
I haven't changed the subject once, not once. I guess you don't know what dancing on a pinhead means as you've misused the reference.
Also why do you care so much what I think, if as you said you'll have sold the car on.
And probably moved on to a vehicle that has the actual tech to provide you with fsd 😉.
Let's circle back here. I said it's not safe, the hardware isn't safe, it's cheap tech, it does a bad job, the data shows it's worse than real drivers supervised.
Your response , luxury , can't wait .
Subject remains unchanged.
Eh no. The only unsafe data is in your head. The experts in RDW will have very carefully examined the real data and will come to the conclusion it is safe to allow FSD supervised on EU roads. Maybe not in their first verdict (although I expect it will be), maybe in a few years time. But it will happen.
Anyone trying to block this from happening despite the data proving self driving is safer, will have blood on their hands.
Quod aliis accusas, eris
We're back at vibes again.
Also youre back tracking again, with maybes
Maybe Tesla will cop itself on, loosen the pockets a tiny bit and put appropriate hardware back into the vehicles to allow the models make more appropriate, measurable and repeatable safe driving determinations.
We can live in wait. I hope they do, because it may put them back on track . Plus off loading that fool of a man off their neck
Sure. Teslas should get lidars and radars because listermint says so. And if they don't, their cars are unsafe. Again because listermint says so.
No not me, their own data.
And that of all the other marques who are specifically and purposefully included it in their latest vehicles and next years vehicles.
(That has nothing to do with me nor my opinion)
Hedge your bets wisely in future Unkel. Use data it's preferential to twitter, Tesla fan websites, Facebook forums and Reddit. Just the data.
Jaysus, I'd love if this conversation was mute :)
Tbg I don't really care what you think what has sucked me into this whole pointless debate was your definitive statement that this won't get approval, looks very likely that it will, that's all. But you can't or won't acknowledge that.
Yeah he wriggled out of that one, even when @unkel pulled up his recent post, proving that there was a clear pivot from stating the tech will not pass, to should not pass, it seems that singing la,la,la with fingers in ears has persisted.
Alas not a single one of you have provided reasons why it should pass or information links data nothing
Just pages of derision.
Enjoy your cars fellas heres hoping you don't find yourselfs personally liable if it runs someone over because that's the extent of what Tesla is aiming for with their submissions. Your insurers won't help you out.
I don't know if it should pass, but i'm not the one who said it won't pass, only to shift my stance to why it shouldn't pass and deny I ever said it wouldn't. Do you accept your stance has changed in the thread from will not, to should not? That's what the other posters were picking up on.
The derision you are feeling is probably more about your inability to disconnect from this thread and take a breather and re-assess. I'm not very invested in the FSD thing. My gripes are more to do lack of transfers for SW purchased and the whole subscription thing. I'm not knowledgeable enough to say whether or not vision only can be safer than humans driving on average, which is the bar I would looking for the tech to pass. I'm not interested in arguing about redundancy, lidar and lasers…what matters for baseline, imo is that the tech they want to pass is safer than humans, or will be prior to roll-out.
I learned a long time ago I'm neither the most intelligent nor the most informed in the room. Those who think they are always show their true colours over time...
Reasonably disappointed in this post Slave to be brutally honest.
I don't know how many times I've said 'sorry I missed that' 'apolgies' 'fair play' etc etc on this thread . And not once!! have I received an acknowledgement nor even a thumbs up or thanks when I do it.
Just side ways digs. Shows you the calibre of folks . Go look for yourself . I don't expect to be acknowledged when I reply earnestly but I have to respond to stuff like this.
Unfair and underhand.
I've found there's only one way to be most intelligent person in a room, it involved surrounding yourself by idiots.
Life is much more rewarding when you seek out new information and learn from others. Dogma can be the enemy of progress, a dogmatic view that a given technology choice will never be good enough is just as bad as a dogmatic view that its the only option.
I enjoy technology because the blending of new and tried techniques leads to interesting results, some paths will fail, some succeed but so long as we learn something along the way it was worth it.
The rumors point toward FSD Supervised achieving an acceptable level to pass RDW analysis and tests.
We're still a long way from robotaxi being operated on any European Street in a commercial capacity
Is it time that an actual expert in this area stepped back into this thread @antseanoifig?
Not true.
That one was only from yesterday. It didn't come from the silent thanks buddy either
And another from the last time you toned down
If you're posting for thanks, there's an anti-musk, anti-tesla thread somewhere you'll hoover up loads of thanks.
This is more for general tesla talk, good or bad.
Stop trying to play victim and poor me. At least be man enough to stand over what you've posted in the past.
