That try was a defensive system error.
Caused by who? RB stayed on his opposite man rightfully. Osborne didn't communicate that he was covering the outside as Zebo pointed out.
That's a very poor response.
I think what Zebo was talking about was the lack of or poor communication from Osborne but again, he was not the reason for our poor set up.
So was he at fault or wasn't he? I'm not having a go at him personally as I thought he was perfectly ok, especially when he moved to 13. But the conversation was about him usurping Keenan which is way wide of the mark.
Defensively he did not shine, France, Wales, and not least being severely outpaced by Stu on the chaseback of Smith.
Think the larger issue was the disconnect from Furlong being the inside defender. Baloucoune was very solid defending throughout the tournament, outside of a couple of moments biting in. The Scots 3rd try, he probably could've done better iirc.
It's the only response your ridiculous opinion deserved.
Yeah that's not any better.
@standardg60 and @eagle eye move on guys
Ireland coming within a last minute penalty of winning the championship is a bit of a head scratcher when you consider how ordinary our scrum is and I'm wondering if scrum dominance is just not as decisive as we are used to with the way the game has evolved. It's still a serious weapon when you have a very dominant scrum as SA showed us in November but I can't recall a time when we'd give up as many penalties and get minced like we did against Italy and still come out on top. Faster ruck ball and organised defence seems to be an antidote more than its been, and I wonder if the is just a kink of the 6N teams or a harbinger of the tide turning away from the kind of rugby that has made SA such a power house.
France nearly threw the championship rather than Ireland coming within a last minute penalty to win it.
We got thumped in the match that mattered.
Yeah, we didn't deserve the championship for that match in France. But the point is only that we did remarkably well considering the poverty of our scrum.
True but then aside from France which of the other 4 teams would be able to capitalise with a more powerful scrum.
The 2 early penalties that England failed to find touch against us, were they offside or scrum pens
The teams with the best scrums finished 4th and 5th. It's not a global constant but in this tournament scrums did not win matches.
I guess we are seeing that scrum dominance is not as decisive as we thought, or that it used to be. I'm intrigued by the idea that the game has moved past the point where a weak scrum dooms you, or maybe its a one off and not representitive of the global game, as @pickarooney suggests.
Scrum was really only an issue in the first two games, was pretty even after. Also worth noting that I think Italy Scotland was the only wet game?
Every other game was decided through fast attacking play and good handling. Weather played a large part in it being such a memorable 6N.
It’s true that our scrum didn’t cost us this championship. But that shouldn’t be a reason to continue neglecting it. It’s still poor. And we’re playing a very dangerous game if we think we can keep getting by without a scrum. We saw in the WC 1/4 final and in November how costly a weak scrum can be.
Iirc, Munster had two scrum penalty tries awarded against them in a H/Cup game away to Leicester and still won the game.
Ireland have shown you can get by without a dominant scrum but we've seen SA humiliate us too.
OK - dont know a huge about rugby compared to some of you chaps, but it strikes me that Beirne is by a long distance our most important player. I'd also say I dont ever remember O'Connell being as good as Beirne has been the past few years. He actually seems a bit under-rated to me, in that I'd have him up there as one of our top three or four players in the professional era. Am I wrong?
Wrong thread I posted reply
It sounds hyperbolic initially, but I think he's probably close to that level realistically.
I'd have him as a nailed on starter on an Irish XV of the pro era.
It's hard ranking and comparing players who played different positions, but my Irish team of the pro era would be as follows:
(15-9, 1-8):
Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe, Brian O'Driscoll, Bundee Aki, James Lowe, Jonathan Sexton, Conor Murray, Cian Healy, Dan Sheehan, Tadhg Furlong, Tadhg Beirne, Paul O'Connell, Stephen Ferris, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip
Reps: Keith Wood, Andrew Porter, John Hayes, James Ryan, David Wallace, Jamison Gibson Park, Ronan O'Gara, Gordon d'Arcy
Very unfortunate to miss out: Hugo Keenan, Keith Earls, Robbie Henshaw, Denis Hickie, Jerry Flannery, Rory Best, Mike Ross, Peter O'Mahony, Caelan Doris, Josh van der Flier
I could still see Keenan & Doris supplanting Kearney & Heaslip in time.
Nice team but JVDF sneaks in for me. Possibly with O Brien to 6 and ferris dropping out. Hard argue with anything else
Yeah, I wrestled with exactly that change. I think Ferris' pure ability would have him in there for me, but his achievements don't stack up with JVDF's obviously.
Beirne will go down as one of Irelands greatest ever Forwards and players. Still vitally important.
Irelands most important player "by a long distance" is JGP
The gap between JGP and the rest is like the Great Rift Valley
The gap between Beirne and the rest is like Springfield Gorge
good selection although having JGP on the bench really makes a bit of a semi mockery of it as he is currently by some distance our most important and right up there in recent history with O’Driscoll, Peter O’Mahony, Sexton and Paul O’Connell
Keenan and Doris are already starters in that team for me and JGP by miles.
I wouldn't have a huge issue with Keenan and Doris - I think each of them are fundamentally better players than the guys I picked (Kearney & Heaslip), but went for who I went for based on the totality of their achievements. As I said, I'd be fairly confident that a few years from now it won't be a debate.
On the 9 position, as phenomenal as JGP has been the past couple of years, it's very hard to discount just how good Conor Murray was for a really long time. Around the time of the 2017 Lions tour I think there was a strong argument he was right up there with Aaron Smith as the best 9 in the world. He was an incredible player for a very long time.
Murray also, like Cian Healy, returned to have a significant international career after an awful injury and subsequent loss of form, which wins you a lot of points in my book.
15. Keenan
14. Fitzgerald
13. BOD
12. Henshaw
11. Hickie
10. Sexton
9. JGP
8. Doris
7. SOB
6. Conan
5. Beirne
4. Ryan
3. Furlong
2. Wood
1. Healy
I fudged having Fitzgerald at 14, not my fault almost all of our best wingers played at 11. Expecting to be flamed for picking him over Bowe, but I think he's one of the most talented players ever. Should've been a 12.
Jesus I didn't see Luke Fitz getting a pick; I don't think his mother would attempt to put him in this team.
He had all the talent to be in this company, but (largely due to injuries), I don't think he came close to delivering on it. His peak season in 2009, as a 21-year-old - really showed how good he could have been. He won a European Cup, a Grand Slam and was a test starting winger for the Lions that year, but I still can't overlook the next 7 years or so when assessing him.
I'd have Tommy Bowe as pretty locked in for this team. He's very underrated IMO for how good he was and what he delivered.
