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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,085 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Harry Byrne ruled out. Aki, Henshaw and JOB called up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,673 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    shite buzz



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭almostover


    I'll lose my nut if Stu McCloskey gets replaced by either of the first 2 mentioned unless he picks up an injury. Our player of the tournament so far. Id do see us sticking to a 5/3 split from now on with Henshaw in the 23 jersey however.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    I would say there is absolutely 0% chance McCloskey doesn't start if it. Lm



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I think they might throw Bundee on the bench in the 23 shirt to give him a send off, as I suspect this might be his final cap.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,370 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Any thoughts on the JOB call up?

    Certainly not deserved after Friday and thought there is enough cover with Osbourne and Stockdale in the squad is my own view. Not sure on that one.

    Aki I hope is there for almost vibes at this stage. A good guy to have around camp on and match day but shouldn’t be in the match day squad. Henshaw aswell in is a bit of a head scratcher.

    Could there be something in central contracts that says if fit, they must be called up? I could understand calling up 1, but both doesn’t make too much sense to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Awk there's no chance of Bundee starting unless Farrell is rotating loads of players.

    On a separate point Foak got hooked around the 50 minute mark last night by Ulster when he was playing well and the game was in the melting pot. It was a strange sub (unless Doak was injured - don't think he was), maybe an indicator that Doak might get a bench spot on Friday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,673 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Hard to judge any player on that match, utter shitshow all around. JOB could allow Osborne to play at 13, with him at 15. He's a great option at 23 too, given his versatility.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭50HX


    We've had enough of that in Rome not so long ago



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,592 ✭✭✭OldRio




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,370 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Yet to get one of these right but giving the 23 a guess on a Monday morning again. Granted I think this one is harder as no idea how many changes may be made:

    1. Loughman 2. Sheehan 3. Clarkson 4. Joe McC 5. Beirne 6. Prendergast 7. Timoney 8. Doris 9. JGP 10. Crowley 11. TOB 12. McCloskey 13. Postlethwaite 14. Baloucoune 15. Osbourne

    16. Stewart 17. O'Toole 18. Bealham 19. Edogbo 20. Conan 21. Doak 22. Prendergast 23. Stockdale (but can see it being Aki)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,085 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I doubt Farrell would pick him or anyone just for a send-off, but there's a good chance Aki is in the 23 jersey anyway, especially if Henshaw seems to have picked up yet another knock.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,996 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Aki didn't start for Connacht which surprised me, although I was glad because I think Forde is better than him now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46 inbloom427


    Aki should be nowhere near the team, disgrace if he gets a run out over trying to get some game time for developing players



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,056 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I don't think it would be a disgrace to give him a bench spot as a farewell. But it would equally be fine to just go ahead with picking other players for the future. I wouldn't be outraged whichever way they go with it.

    I'd be annoyed if they're considering playing him for the foreseeable future, November etc. He's been great but he's old and there are new options who need experience. Make the investment in the future players.

    Post edited by El_Duderino 09 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Tommybojangles


    Can we chill on retiring Bundee or saying it's a disgrace if he is picked. It could very well be his last game for Ireland if he does play this weekend but I reallly don't understand where this detemination to retire players comes from.

    He;'s been in poor form this year and if that continues he won't get picked. An awful lot of other players who were ont he Lions were in poor form this year and turned it around against England.

    Using word like "disgrace" about a coaches pick for a bench spot just makes me disregard your opinion and riles people up making reasonable conversation impossible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭TRC10


    This is exactly the sort of thing Farrell does. Cian Healy had a 2 year long farewell tour



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Odd

    Unless Stockdale is out of favour post Paris.

    JOB should have been in the initial squad in Nov. I would have him there ahead of Stockdale (game is more suitable. see Paris and Twickenham kicking to wing)

    Bundee was a great player. Great for Irish rugby. I dont think he needs to play in this 6N.

    Agree he shouldn't be considered for Nov either.

    Once they stick with the 3 backs on the bench that would be paramount.

    e.g. 23.JOB or Farrell or Frawley or Aki



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    And who was banging down the door to take his place?

    They had to switch Porter to LH to cover for the lack of depth in the position



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭ShineyShiney


    Yes its a little odd how anti older players some people get. Aki is still well capable and hasn't let us down. The end is looming but still has a value imo.If Stu picked up an injury aki would probably start. That being said I'd like to see postlwwaite get a run.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,085 ✭✭✭Former Former Former




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭big-al


    so do I.


    Forde is a very underrated 12, who I can see gaining international caps.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭CONSI


    could they not bring someone like Dan Kelly or Postlethwaite into the setup rather than the likes of Aki and Henshaw…its like we go, well we won against England so we can go back to doing what we did before…rolling out the same lads, no development…we never learn…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭Packrat


    It's usually reserved for older players from provinces they don't like. I can understand liking some Ireland Internationals from ones own province more than others but yes it's a kinda weird trait.

    Recent examples would be Henderson, PoM, Murray, Aki and Healy. None of those was playing really badly, but clearly Henderson and Healy weren't contributing much of late. Aki either to be fair.

    Only one (Healy) got an over-extended lap of honour whilst not contributing much but there really wasnt anyone putting their hand up for his jersey either. Henderson was called up sporadically but couldnt reproduce good club form in test situations anymore. PoM and Murray were worth their places till the last day they played.

    Giants of the game and dedicated servants of the cause over many years deserve a little more dignity than constant calls for them to be dropped, particularly when they're playing reasonably well or where there isn't an alternative.

    The nastiness towards Bundee Aki in particular stands out as real lowlife stuff.

    He left nothing in the tank for us and was our best player by 10 miles in the 2023 world Cup but couldn't ultimately it on his own.

    Some people just love to show their lack of class though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,056 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I think you're losing sight of what an investment is. Investment means accepting probably not getting the payout straight away. If the younger player was already better, then it wouldn't be an investment, it would just be playing your strongest team. So in this case Aki might well be better than *Jude Postlethwaite for example, but you know Aki won't be around for the world cup and Postlethwaite probably will.

    Also, older players are much less prone to making mistakes. But their performance dips in less obvious ways like not doing the extraordinary things that made them great in their prime. It's harder to see the lack of extraordinary things because they're not doing anything wrong.

    The choice is to play Aki until his performance falls off a cliff, then panic about who can replace him 6 months before the world cup, or try players in the position now to get a feel for how they improve.

    *Jude Postlethwaite is an example. I don't want to ge into the specifics on Postlethwaite



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,996 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    If the coach doesn't think a player will ever reach the level required then he's not going to play him. You have to consider that when you see a veteran getting the nod over the player you think is good enough.

    I personally don't think Postlethwaite is all that, I think Gavin is a much better prospect. He's out injured at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,531 ✭✭✭visatorro


    Its crowleys jersey now I think everyone agrees, but what's the opinions on sam on the bench? He doesn't cover other positions and its clear his confidence has taken a tumble. Imv he's better off going back to leinster and seeing if he can become a better player.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Jack starts, if he gets injured Sam takes over, if another back gets injured, move Jack and Sam goes to outhalf. A 6-2 makes Sam less likely to be on the bench but a 5-3 and he's probably on the bench



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I've noticed you've said this a few times about Postlethwaite. What in particular do you not rate about Postlethwaite?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭Packrat


    All that I get and agreee with. I don't see Aki, Henderson or even Henshaw in a starting 15 for Ireland again bar a massive raft of injuries at centre or lock. The younger (+ McCloskey) players are already better - so as you say, there's no investment needed now. They've made their places. One year ago, maybe, as you say, there should have been more investment in the next generation but that didn't have to involve denigrating the absolute heroes who's only fault was getting older.

    Bench them 65 to 80% of the time maybe, but not this horrible "he should never again wear a green shirt" bullsh1t.



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