Tom Wood needs to be called up immediately 🤣
It's behind a paywall so I didn't see the full article but his tweet was
Club first
Fair enough, but this is a fan’s perspective and one that explains Farrell’s torrid time on this board regardless of results, but it very much is not reality on the ground. The needs of the national team come first, always. We might not always like it but maybe it’s time for people to accept it. It didn’t start with Farrell and it didn’t start with Beirne. They are all Ireland players who also play for a province, and this is especially true for centrally contracted players.Munster are not in the position to rest & rotate him in & out
Munster are not in the position to rest & rotate him in & out
Again, this might be true but your anger is misplaced. It is not the fault of anyone in the Irish management that Munster have not developed enough quality players going back 15 years.
But is it true? Munster have Ahern, Kleyn, Edogbo and Wycherly in the second row and decent options at six. Is it that Munster are not in a position to give him a rest, or just don’t want to? And if they can but just won’t, how is that any different to Ireland? The answer is it isn’t different, it is just your perspective on what takes priority in club vs country.
Before people flip out, I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, it just is what it is, and it explains a lot.
It
Is
A
JOKE
….but he is at Leinster because of Nienaber
U know this because of your SA “connection” of course….
Also a joke before you go mental again!!
Go on & nail your colours to the mast😁
Is It right or wrong?
There's absolutely no need for Beirne to play in all the AIs, he played Fiji the year before. Where is the squad development if you're flogging Beirne match after match after match.
This year Munster have played 1,200 mins of competitive rugby, Beirne has played 560 mins this season for Munster but yeah, it's Munster who are flogging him
It’s neither, it’s perspective.
I’m self-aware enough to know that if Leinster fell off a cliff in terms of player development for ten years and we had no players in the Ireland team, my own perspective might shift. it’s human nature. People won’t really support a team because they’re supposed to or because Vodafone say they should. They have to feel it and a lot of people haven’t felt it for a long time.
Speaking from personal experience?
I know from my own perspective I've always supported Ireland, never hated a player or coach either.
It's also posible to be Club first, still be a huge Ireland fan, and have legitimate criticisms of Farrell. But, pretty often, that gets lumped into the "Farrell's torrid time" bucket.
Framing 50HX's following comment of "Munster are not in the position to rest & rotate him in & out" as "anger" is exactly the type of thing I'm talking about here. Ridiculous.
And if "the needs of the national team come first, always" then the "David Humphreys development tax" should be something to celebrate, as being so reliant on one Province in the long-term is far from ideal. Right?
But lets examine this:
Munster have Ahern, Kleyn, Edogbo and Wycherly in the second row and decent options at six. Is it that Munster are not in a position to give him a rest, or just don’t want to?
You've completely omitted the context of injuries in all of this. Kleyn and Wycherley both essentially missed a full season out injured. Edogbo missed nearly 2. And Tom Ahern, unfortunately, has regularly been injured.
You can't remotely say anything close to that of Beirne. We've even had to rely on Gavin Coombes in the 2nd row at times.
So, for large spells, it absolutely was the case that Munster were not in a position to give him a rest.
And to add - during all of that time, Beirne was one of the best 2nd rows in the world. Whatver about now, but you'd be hard pushed to suggest his performances over the last 4 years suffered from playing so many minutes.
So you've no opinion on wheather the perspective you have is right or wrong?
surely everyone always thinks their own perspective is right? That doesn’t make it objectively “right”
I don't see anybody "angry" or "flipping out" about it.
I just asked you for clarification on your perspective.
Park it if you are just going to give the politician answer of saying something without saying if you agree or not on.
Is there a match day thread somewhere?
And the coaches actions over the last few years doesnt really backup wanting to be inclusive and have 4 out-halves competing/ rotating. Sam hasnt even travelled over to England with the squad which seems a bit odd to me. Sexton and Farrell both deflecting with some of their comments this week
Yes, I thought Sam and the likes of Edogbo would have travelled but maybe it's to allow them get out of camp, back to their families and give them chill time.
Very interesting stats. Think a few more would be handy in relation to outhalf play:
Line breaks created Kick contestable success rate Line kicking average metre made Defensive kick length clearance Successful offloads thrown after contact
Any word on Baloucoune? Was heavily strapped yesterday and sounds like he might be a doubt
That would be very disappointing. I know Byrne travelled with the squad, presumably TOB would start and Byrne onto the bench
Did Stockdale travel? Hopefully it was all precautionary and he’s raring to go. We need his aerial presence.
Exactly, the actual important stuff doesn't seem to get measured.
I find the stats given utterly meaningless tbh. For instance, Sam's more tactical kicking is looked on as a plus, whereas watching the last two games you'd say it was a distinct disadvantage.
He might have covered them in his article. I doubt he presented the stats to suit an agenda.
Who mentioned an agenda?
Conan out. Prendergast to the bench. Big loss
Izzy would have been significantly better to have as backup.
Would agree. Maybe Prendergast being a bigger turnover threat swung it for him considering Englands selection but would prefer Izzy in the lineout and as an option if we need cover in the row.
When?
"when" not "if" we need cover in the row.
Out of our first choice 23 we’re missing Porter, McCarthy, Conan, Baird, Keenan and Hansen. Am I missing anytime else? Quite a bit of heft to be missing for a game in Twickenham.
Henshaw, Aki?
Don’t think they’d make our 23 on current form especially with McCloskey’s from. Farrell would probably go with Aki at 23.
