Fogarty, POC & Sexton were all inexperienced coaches, all probably do a good job but do we need a better balance between having great players as coaches and having experienced coaches
in an alternate universe Antoine Fritsch could be playing 13 for Ireland now
Why would we want a player not good enough for international rugby to be playing for Ireland?
I never said it was Casey’s fault, it what I posted was to complicated for you to understand and you dont see the differences between those players and how they play the game that’s on you.
So Sam was given a chance to step out of JGP's shadow and fluffed it? Is that what you're saying I'm not sure, your post, it's very complicated.
It’s not at all complicated.
JGP is a playmaker, he controls the game and dictates where Ireland attack a lot of the time. He analyses the defense before passing from the base of the ruck, He makes it easier for SP because it means JGP is deciding a lot of the time what happens, if it goes to forwards, what side it goes to, if they kick or play out the backs and his decision making is excellent.
Casey plays different, he try’s to get the ball into the 10’s hands asap if he hasn’t already decided to kick and then the 10 is the playmaker and decision maker.
When Casey plays with SP it means SP has to manage the game more than he normally does and make calls more that he’s used to, and neither of him or Casey are an attacking threat
when Crowley plays with JGP it means both are looking for chances, looking for space and weakness all the time and the defence has more problems to contend with.
Simply put Crowley is a better player with JGP and SP is a worse player with Casey.
Nice theory, but Sam was in the second screen as much as 1st receiver.
he wasn’t.
He was… Also, he would have called most of the shapes. Casey would have done what he trained during the week, same as JGP, AND who runs the week? Well according to Andy the 10 runs the week.
He touched the ball 44 times in 55 minutes. He was overwhelmingly at first receiver.
So touching the ball means he was 1st receiver and not on a screen pass. What logic are you using? I touched my balls, so I must be 1st receiver?
No one not playing consistently at first receiver receives the ball even close to that amount.
He played a very large number of wraparounds and was getting his hands on the ball multiple times per phase but the idea he was "equally" getting the ball on screen passes vs being at first receiver is absurd.
Casey made 56 passes in the game. Not every pass was to Sam, but of course a lot were, are you saying that JGP doesn't pass to Sam at all or rarely? What exactly is your point, that Casey passes to 10 more than usual 9s do? Or is he just running the plays that they practiced during the week?
While we're on the count, JGP passed the ball 27 times in his time on the pitch, but was the big difference maker?
He made 56 passes and obviously not every pass was to Sam. The majority of them were though, cause Sam was playing as first receiver.
I have no idea what your point is. Claiming SP was only playing at first receiver half the time is simply plain wrong.
That hasn’t stopped us picking, Sam P, Tommy O’Brien, Craig Casey, etc.
Looks like he's saying that Prendergast looks good when Gibson-Park runs the game for him. An international 10 shouldn’t want less ball or less responsibility. Crowley thrives alongside JGP because they’re both playmakers; Prendergast struggles with Casey because it forces him to actually manage the game. If giving a fly-half responsibility makes him worse, he’s not ready for that level.
Thanks for clarifying. So their point is Sam is not up to this level. Gotcha, thanks!
An international 10 shouldn’t want less ball or less responsibility.
I agree, though this isn't remotely an issue for SP and there is absolutely no way to make any kind of argument for it. He gets on the ball more than any other option.
JGP definitely is more of a playmaker than Casey. It just is what it is, it means there is a different focal point on the attack. You have something similar in France with Dupont.
The point is that Sam is young and it’s a step up to this level that he is trying to contend with, and taking him away from the play making 9 that he knows from his club and putting him in a position where he has to do more dictating play and decision making is adding pressure to a position that he is still trying to get to grips with.
Playing outside JGP is much easier for a 10 than playing outside Casey, as someone said it’s easier be the 10 that’s outside DuPont. Same thing
From what Crowley has put out to date, he is not international standard. I fear people will jump for joy seeing Crowley in the team next week but he will offer minimal improvement come Saturday.
Last week it was
1.Prendergast
2.Crowley
3.Byrne
Prendergast has a bad game and Crowley a good one so now it's
1.Byrne
2.Prendergast
3.Crowley
🤣
I'm not sure these guys even know they're doing it. I hope they do, because the alternative is frightening..
I agree, it will be a slight improvement. But if you think Crowley isn't international standard then what standard are Byrne and Prendergast at?
I would argue that all three are international standard. All are capped for their country. But none of them are at the standard of the past two fly halves we've had in the international team. Can't currently do anything about that.
What can we do only pick the best player even if he's only slightly better than the alternatives?
TBH, it doesn’t matter if Crowley is international standard, only if he’s the best option for next week.
I can’t see how we persist with SP for England. Maybe we give him a run against Wales but his head is all over the place.
I wonder what the narrative will be next week if Crowley starts and England blow us away (which is a distinct possibility).
The 10 debate is a smokescreen for the wider underperformance of the squad over the last 18mths. That's on the coaching set up.
If England do give us a beating, it'll be the same failings (set piece, lack of physicality and attack, loose kicking) that will be the catalyst, not who starts at 10.
Can someone please enlighten me regarding the scrum yesterday. It used to be that if a front row deliberately drove upwards they were penalised but Italy did it several times without anything. Has the law changed ?
Totally, scrum performs like yesterday, and the backline won’t get a look in. The bigger problems are in the pack, not at 10.
It will be blah, blah, blah, it was everyone elses fault but Crowley's, no decent ball to work with blah, blah, blah etc.
I mean, he's absolutely the least worst option we have right now at 10, but he's no more than that and the love in for him coming from some quarters is beyond tiresome at this point.
Realistically the best we can do is hope that he doesn't get any worse between now and when Prendergast becomes good enough and/or another better option comes along.
Excuses coming in hot and the team hasn't even been picked yet
If Prendergast becomes good enough not when. Rugby and sport is littered with guys who never became good enough.
And notably a common theme is people pushed too hard too young.
