No, my argument is that it makes his stats look worse than reality.
I agree with that, but that's a different argument to "he didn't really have to try and make it"
he didn't really have to try and make it"
Fwiw, to add to the above, I think he ends up seemingly attempting more tap tackles than others because he's not particularly quick or athletic, and his reactions and reads defensively seem really slow to me.
If he was quicker and more athletic, he wouldn't need to be making as many tap tackles, they'd be actual tackles.
ROG was a poor tackler but he wasn't afraid to put his body on the line, so far, it would be hard to say about Sam but if he ends up with a career as good as ROG I'm sure we'll all be delighted
But they got it back on transition (where the carved us open a few times) with our defence compressed on the other side of the pitch from an earlier ruck.
It's exactly the type of attacking ball they were looking for all day when they went to the contestable.
I don't think it was an appalling error or anything, but on balance, I'd have preferred him to concede the lineout, where we could actually put some structure on the defence.
That would be absolutely fine.
Make a thread called "The Irish Flyhalf Situation" and let all those that feel compelled to, go to town, and the rest of us can get on with other debates.
Technically the tackle isn't completed. I agree though, it's a nonsense and it's proof that you can't always read a missed tackle stat on its own.
That goes for Crowley too, before anyone starts clutching their pearls.
i think it looked worse because its was a fly-hack, if it had been out of his hands i think it would look like much less of an issue
There are stats on that I'm sure. How often do France score from a line out in the 22 and how often from broken field turnover from half way. My sense is that the latter is much more dangerous. SP's volley was always giving possession back to France as so many Irish players were in front of him. It was a bad decision.
Yea exactly. On another day that ball bounces into touch near halfway.
Go ahead and produce these numbers then. Because just claiming they exist and then deciding it was a mistake based on completely imaginary stats doesn't really make any sense.
So you tell us how often they score from inside their own half vs score from inside the opposition 22.
Ah lads, there’s no scenario where conceding a lineout in your own 22 is a better option than kicking the ball back into the opposition half.
It was a great bit of play.
Lovely dry crisp morning here in Dublin, c'mon Ireland
The levels of bullsh1t being produced to abuse Prendergast is ridiculous. Post these mythical stats
The Italian scrum looked pretty damn good against Scotland. I have to admit I'm a little concerned in that aspect of the game. We shall see.
Be my guest. It was a mad effort from SP and I don't know how anyone could conclude otherwise. What happened was the likeliest outcome because there was no prospect of us competing for the ball.
Scotland scrum is no great shakes. Dry day here hopefully so minimal scrums too. Get the lineout going and we win comfortably.
no prospect of us competing for the ball.
Not every kick has to be a “contestable” (Christ I hate that word), sometimes you just have to clear it long and set your defence.
Do you have any examples of this? Can just remember the Bielle-Biarrey one off the top of my head.
If SP tried to catch the ball his momentum most likely would have brought him into touch and if France scored off the lineout the narrative would be SP should have kicked it etc.
The ‘ROG wasn’t a great defender but he put his body on the line’ is one of the great myths of Irish rugby. A player picking out a weak defender and going straight at him doesn’t make that defender brave.
ROG had many talents on the pitch but putting his body on the line for the team wasn’t one. Does anyone laud Mike Catt for putting his body on the line after getting run over by Lomu in 1995? Has anyone ever heard anyone from any other country praise ROG for putting his body on the line? He’s hardly up there with the likes of Wayne Shelford, Martin Johnson, BOD and Richie McCaw for physical commitment to the cause.
I disagree.
You somewhat regularly see defenders but in that really tough spot run it into touch, which they don’t cop the blame for.
Sure, but loose kicking to France is extremely risky. A lineout is preferable.
If Sam can himself get to at least ROG's level of defence then I think we'll be ok with him as an outhalf playing for Ireland
I’d argue that he’s at that level of defence now and it’s not good enough in the current game. If he wants to be a top outhalf, which he appears to have the attacking traits to do, he needs to be gaining parity in more collisions. The hope is he’ll get there once he fills out. I think we’ve already seen improvements in this part of his game in the last year so I’m hopeful he can get there. If in 20 years we’re saying at least he put his body on the line, that will mean he didn’t get there.
Someone In a WhatsApp group I'm part of offered four tickets for the match. 190 quid each. That can't be right, is it?
Nah, premium tickets were 170, category 1 were 125.
whoever they are they're creaming on top, and at this stage if they're looking to offload tickets they should expect to take a hit on them.
I hope the players aren't as depressed and miserable as this thread is....
ITS GAME DAY !!!
Match kicking off in 3 1/2 hours !!
I hope Robbie, Cormac and Edwin have absolutely stormers of games and shake up the "first 15" selection. I hope craig has a game where he shows control of tempo, attaching prowess and that physically for him isn't an issue at this level.
And of course I hope Sam continues his development at 10 and silences the doubters.
I am still worried about that Italy team, they are on an updated curve, the opposite of us, but teams of their level haven't really bothered us too much at home over the last few years.
Hopefully we see stats at the end of the game like 60/40 possession and territory. Double the line breaks and defenders beaten. Half the missed tackles. More offloads / dominant carries and dominant tackles.
And of course, at least 50% contestable returned.
While I am a big rugby it’s rare a rugby result genuinely hurt me…but there are two that achieved this. Ireland v England in the warm up from 2019 and Ireland v France last week…
I can tolerate just being outclass and/or beaten by the better side, I simply can’t tolerate a side lacking fight and passion as we saw on Thursday. Since then I’ve lost a lot of trust and fate I had in this team and simply can’t bring myself to make any sort of prediction with confidence.
My main hope today is they at least atone for all these errors from last week and actually give it their all today.
Until Prendergast does it, of course.
Or Crowley
Any sign of those stats or is it just source - "trust me bro"?
