If they moved the lineout calling away from Tadhg Beirne to Fineen Wycherley then that does the complete opposite of "disproves" the point I'm trying to make, it could equally be the case that Fineen Wycherley is bad at this, but it fairly comprehensively says they don't think Beirne is good at it.
I'm not overly critical or negative of Beirne either - as I've said elsewhere on this thread, he's been an incredible player for Ireland. I think he's one of a number of guys who is showing clear fatigue from the Lions, which is probably exacerbated by some other factors (he just turned 34, he has a new small baby at home). I absolutely wouldn't suggest he should be dropped from the Irish starting team either.
The lineout has many inputs to success, the caller, the jumpers, the lifters and the thrower.
People keep making this same point - and the bulk of those are technical skills - jumping, lifting, throwing. Calling is a mental skill.
We absolutely know all of these players are very capable of consistently executing these technical skills, because we see them do it time and time again.
There is a far bigger question mark around Beirne's capabilities on the mental skill of calling a lineout effectively, especially if, as you say, Munster have moved that responsibility away from him too recently.
But Beirne is a Farrell favourite and I'd wager a large sum that he'll be wearing the 6 jersey in Paris.
Agree, there is zero chance that Beirne gets dropped because of the lineout woes. And it's not because he's a "Farrell favourite", it's because he's absolutely top-class.
If he's the caller, then let Ryan or McCarthy do it, let Beirne focus on what he's good at.
A complete aside, but iirc Mick Galwey credited John Hayes for extending his rugby playing career because of this.
Fwiw, my understanding is that Fineen is calling it in games where Beirne isn't playing…
Leaving the LO somewhat aside; Beirne may not be playing his best but he must start. And at 6.
Irish YC's last year were killed by the 'Full Metal Jacket' France (7 Forwards) on bench.
Same approach this year but could be a completely different BR from France.
Cros and Boudehent only recently recovered from injury and Alldritt is dropped.
French Pack:
Gros, Mauvaka, Atonio; Flament, Meafu; Jelonch, Woki, Ollivon.
16.Marchand17.Baille18.Aldegheri
19.Guillard20.Auradou21.Jégou22.Matiu*
Irish Pack:
Boyle, Sheehan, Furlong; Ryan, McCarthy; Beirne, vdF, Doris.
16.Kelleher 17.Loughman 18.Bealham
19.Edogbo* 20.Conan
For me, it'll be intersting to see what way he goes with the bench, particularly with regards back-row / 2nd row / 6-2 options for France.
I previously posted the following from last year:
Vs France, we went 6/2, McCarthy and Beirne starting [at 5], with Ryan and Baird on the bench (as well as Conan).Vs SA, we had 2 back-rows on the bench (Prendergast and Conan), with Baird from 6 covering lock.
Vs France, we went 6/2, McCarthy and Beirne starting [at 5], with Ryan and Baird on the bench (as well as Conan).
Vs SA, we had 2 back-rows on the bench (Prendergast and Conan), with Baird from 6 covering lock.
I'd agree that I think we'll almost certainly see Ryan, McCarthy and Beirne at 6 starting if all are fit vs France.
With Baird injured, Henderson dropped, and Tom Ahern and Edogbo currently injured too (tho unsure of them return dates) it'll be interesting to see what way we go.
I think you’d have to say there’s obviously an issue with the system. That may be getting exacerbated by the caller. The majority of the players have shown they can be part of a successful lineout.
Bernard Jackman is advocating for Edogbo and McCarthy to start in the second row for the France game. His reasoning is to bolster the scrum, especially when we have weaker scrummagers in reserve than we're used to.
Wouldn't be a fan of it purely because it significantly weakens an already dodgy lineout. The two locks are probably too big to reliably lift all the time. You're looking at Beirne, VDF, Doris as your primary jumpers. Josh isn't a good option, Doris is ok and Beirne has his issues also.
sorry, only getting to respond to this now
2025 6 Nations initial squad (36):
Player
Position
Date of birth (age)
Caps
Club/province
Rob Herring
Hooker
27 April 1990 (aged 34)
43
Ulster
Rónan Kelleher
24 January 1998 (aged 27)
39
Leinster
Gus McCarthy
23 July 2003 (aged 21)
4
Dan Sheehan
17 September 1998 (aged 26)
32
Finlay Bealham
Prop
9 October 1991 (aged 33)
51
Connacht
Jack Boyle
10 March 2002 (aged 22)
2
Tom Clarkson
22 February 2000 (aged 24)
6
Tadhg Furlong
14 November 1992 (aged 32)
79
Cian Healy
7 October 1987 (aged 37)
137
Andrew Porter
16 January 1996 (aged 29)
75
Ryan Baird
Lock
26 July 1999 (aged 25)
27
Tadhg Beirne
8 January 1992 (aged 33)
61
Munster
Iain Henderson
21 February 1992 (aged 32)
85
Cormac Izuchukwu
28 January 2000 (aged 25)
1
Joe McCarthy
26 March 2001 (aged 23)
19
James Ryan
24 July 1996 (aged 28)
72
Jack Conan
Back row
29 July 1992 (aged 32)
Caelan Doris (c)
2 April 1998 (aged 26)
Peter O'Mahony
17 September 1989 (aged 35)
114
Cian Prendergast
23 February 2000 (aged 24)
Josh van der Flier
25 April 1993 (aged 31)
73
Caolin Blade
Scrum-half
29 April 1994 (aged 30)
3
Jamison Gibson-Park
23 February 1992 (aged 32)
Conor Murray
20 April 1989 (aged 35)
125
Jack Crowley
Fly-half
13 January 2000 (aged 25)
24
Ciarán Frawley
4 December 1997 (aged 27)
8
Sam Prendergast
12 February 2003 (aged 21)
Bundee Aki
Centre
7 April 1990 (aged 34)
65
Robbie Henshaw
12 June 1993 (aged 31)
82
Jamie Osborne
16 November 2001 (aged 23)
7
Garry Ringrose
26 January 1995 (aged 30)
67
Mack Hansen
Wing
27 March 1998 (aged 26)
28
James Lowe
8 July 1992 (aged 32)
40
Calvin Nash
8 August 1997 (aged 27)
10
Hugo Keenan
Fullback
18 June 1996 (aged 28)
46
Jimmy O'Brien
27 November 1996 (aged 28)
players not in the 2026 squad are struck through.
2026 6 Nations initial squad (37):
Forwards (20):
Tom Ahern (Shannon/Munster)(2) Finlay Bealham (Corinthians/Connacht)(54) Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster)(65) Jack Boyle (UCD/Leinster)(4) Thomas Clarkson (Blackrock College/Leinster)(10) Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)(55) Caelan Doris (St. Mary’s College/Leinster)(55)(captain)Edwin Edogbo (UCC/Munster)* Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)(82) Rónan Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)(43)Jeremy Loughman (Garryowen/Munster)(5) Joe McCarthy (Dublin University/Leinster)(19)Michael Milne (UCD/Munster)(2) Tom O’Toole (Ballynahinch/Ulster)(17) Cian Prendergast (UCD/Connacht)(8) James Ryan (UCD/Leinster)(76) Dan Sheehan (Lansdowne/Leinster)(35)Tom Stewart (Ballynahinch/Ulster)(4) Nick Timoney (Queen’s University/Ulster)(6) Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)(75)
Backs (17):
Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht)(68)Robert Baloucoune (Enniskillen/Ulster)(4) Harry Byrne (Lansdowne/Leinster)(4) Craig Casey (Shannon/Munster)(24) Jack Crowley (Cork Constitution/Munster)(30)Nathan Doak (Banbridge/Ulster)* Tom Farrell (Lansdowne/Munster)(2) Ciaran Frawley (UCD/Leinster)(9) Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster)(46) Hugo Keenan (UCD/Leinster)(46) James Lowe (Leinster)(43)Stuart McCloskey (Bangor/Ulster)(23)Tommy O’Brien (Blackrock College/Leinster)(6) Jamie Osborne (Naas/Leinster)(10) Sam Prendergast (Lansdowne/Leinster)(13) Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)(69)Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster)(40)
new players from 2025 bolded
i did my counting wrong, its 14 new players between squads, not 15.
The majority of the players have shown they can be part of a successful lineout
Yes and has already been said, in a different environment and against a lower tier opposition
I agree with this, Beirne shouldn't be calling the lineout if it's contributing to the problems. I have a feeling thought that changing the caller may not make much difference.
I’d have backed Leinster to have gone better against high tier opposition like Japan in the AI for example.
You're correct, I had thought it was POC but it was in fact Gaillimh.
My point being that a successful lineout has many moving parts. I don't think the current woes should be pinned on any individual.
Wasn't there a lot of problems with the lineout before Beirne started calling it as well. I thought it was Ryan calling it before Beirne.
The one constant through all the issues has been O Connell. How he's still in his position I don't know.
The Irish lineout struggles go back to when POM was still around calling the lineouts - blaming Beirne seems massively simplistic. The lineout has been up and down for a couple years at this point.
Remains to be seen how we get on this 6N
Selection will depend on who's fit really, my guess is as follows.
In the first half, Japan contested exactly 1 lineout. We had a 57% completion at half-time.
At that point, it's way more an execution issue than a calling issue, imo.
My own thoughts is for the French game Farrell should pick not for the future but what he believes is his strongest 23. than, win or lose, review all players performances and where a player did not perform to the minimum required standard, replace them for the following game. and so on. If Farrell does that the players and fans will get behind it, don’t do that and continue to pick underperforming players then he is going to have a few problems.
france by 20 so.
anyone able to hazard a guess as to when Ringrose last made a line break?
we don’t disagree about much here, honestly. IIRC my original response was to say we had a lot more than 10 tests to go before the WC, and time enough to prepare a squad. Selections for 6N don’t indicate that Farrell is worried in the way a lot of us are. I guess I feel we have real problems at FR, SH and in the centres. There are alternatives available if he develops them. As I said earlier, my biggest worry is playing style. Other than Keenan and maybe Hansen I’m not convinced we have any kind of aerial game to deal with how the game is being played by the likes of SA and England.
We'll have to see the French team first, its a big call dropping Fickou & Aldriit
If Jalibert doesnt get the nod at 10 & given the relationship between him & coach then it will be v interesting.
Its the perfect game to catch them rather than say game 4 or 5.
I think all the pressure is on France...sure we have all the injuries😁.
Penaud apparently has said he now wants the record for most assists in the Champions Cup as he has the try record....he's really old school french
Well he's barely played for Leinster all season, but he scored a try in Europe against Quins back in December (his last game before last weekend).
His form hasn't been good since the Lions tour, where he was playing great rugby (he played 4 games, scored 3 tries and would have been the test 13 if he hadn't withdrawn himself with injury).
Probably around the last time he made a decent defensive read
Probably his second last game when he scored a try against Quins in December and had another line break. Not sure if he had any line breaks against Bayonne but he had a hell of a lot of carries so I can only definitely say his second last game was his last line break.
I banged on about perspective at great length last week but again, you can look at this squad in terms of how many new or inexperienced faces have been called up, or you can look at it in terms of who hasn’t been dropped that you wanted rid of because you don’t like them.
And again, your perspective probably depends on your pre-existing opinion of Farrell.
Well if you really want to know he has 2 in the Champions Cup and none in the URC but he has only played 219 minutes of rugby this season.
His competition for the 13 jersey being Tom Farrell and James Hume have 4 and 6 respectively but that is across 655 and 758 minutes. So on a per minute basis as a 13 Garry has the best line break stats.
He was also phenomenal in the Lions series until he got his HIA.
Ringrose seems to get lumped in with Aki and Henshaw as being over the hill. His demise is greatly over blown. He is far and away the best 13 in Ireland.
Pre existing opinion of Farrell being the key point. Back in November nobody wanted Iain Henderson in the squad. Now he has been dropped it is apparently because he spoke out about the number of Ulster players and not because he has been replaced by Edogbo as he should have been. Andy really can't win with some people.
The idea that ppls problems with the pace of squad development is to do with underlying ‘feelings’ about Farrell is based on just as little as any made up assumptions about the coach. Ireland have been on a downward trajectory since the WC. Chicago was emblematic of it and the following games in Nov did little to persuade anyone that Chicago was a hiccup. There are real problems in the squad and in the game plan!
If Ireland were playing fantastic at this stage posters would be saying we're peaking too soon, as we tend to do mid cycles.
This 6 nations is going to be the swan song for the likes of lowe and aki. Henderson is already gone. We lost Murray, POM and healy last season.
The squad IS changing and progressing. It's just that Ireland simply do not have the player pool or depth to do it on a rapid basis.
What we're doing re the emerging Ireland and XV squad is fantastic. The coaches are getting to see the best part of 60% of the available options for the first squad.
I dare say no other nation is looking at players at that rate.
