It is still a hypothetical involving a player who is out for several months.
Is it really silly to observe that fringe players need to grab their opportunities when they arise? That’s how the world works and Stockdale did not do so. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be in the mix again but it’s the reality of his situation.
Again, he didn’t seize his opportunity, that’s the reality of it. Also worth noting that my first post in this discussion says that Stockdale was one of the best performers on Friday and could be an option in the 6N.
Lowe isn’t as good as he was and I doubt Farrell is blind to that, but someone needs to press their case for his jersey.
And if there’s a lazier cliché than a player is only picked because he’s the coach’s favourite, I haven’t heard it.
Lowe isn't grabbing anything either though. He has been consistently poor so the bar to replace him is incredibly low.
To be clear, this isn't a "test level player has one bad game and needs to replaced" scenario. Lowe's try in the game on Friday was his first in 11 matches. His lack of pace has been consistently shown up, his defence is not acceptable and his kicking has been erratic.
Stockdale has always been held to a higher standard for whatever reason. This year he’s been levels above most of the names being thrown about as the next man up.
Lowe is playing fine, maybe past his peak but still our best left wing, if people want to pretend otherwise to take potshots at Farrell that’s OK.
Couple of points on this.
The conversation started because a poster said the only reason Lowe was playing was because he was a favourite of Farrell.
Why are you here saying no potshots have been made when that is clearly untrue?
The conversation started when a poster said Lowe has been useless for a year.
The OP I was referring to was the following:
James Lowe has been useless for a year now
Fair enough, I missed the "Farrell favourite" comment, but as potshots go, it's pretty mild. The bigger point I'm making is, a disagreement in how a player is playing isn't "lying / pretending otherwise".
It's a difference of opinion.
Well both of those posts are untrue.
Has he ended the year well? Not to his exceptionally high standards. However to say he's been 'useless' for a year is nonsense. He played very well at the start of the year, towards the end of last season and was a Test Lion. You don't get to that point by being 'useless'.
There is always this narrative that creeps in over Lowe when he doesn't perform to his best, but his 6/10 performances still display far greater ability than anyone who wants to challenge him at this point in time.
And you followed up by saying he was a favourite of Andy Farrell.
Or are you going to pretend that you didn't?
@phog @For Petes Sake MOD we can end that here. this isnt going to go any further
He was indeed a Test Lion. That doesn't mean he was played well for the Lions tho. Wasn't he dropped for the last Test?
You might well still think he's our best option. But it's not controversial to say that he's form has dropped to the point there's a discussion to be had there. That doesn't mean those who don't think he's the best opion are "lying / pretending".
EDIT: just seen mod warning, will leave it there.
For the record, it was
“Still a favourite of Farrell's and that's all that counts”
You’re free to agree with that, I absolutely do not, so yes, a difference of opinion is exactly what it is.
I did not use the word lying.
I’ve acknowledged this.
Stockdale doesn’t need to get back to his 2018 form, where he was probably the best finisher in world rugby.
He just needs to be better than Lowe, and that isn’t too much of obstacle
Are people honestly touting Kenny for Ireland after *checks notes* 149 minutes of play..? Must be a boards record
I’m not sure any of the other options have Lowe’s physical abilities to break tackles and finish tries. He may have lost some pace but his finishing and kicking abilities are hard to replace, and his defence is fine.
Gus McCarthy was playing for Ireland after 286 minutes.
Paddy McCarthy was playing for Ireland after 275 minutes.
You could argue JJ Kenny is perfectly on course for a cap at this stage of his career 😂😂
He never had any pace so losing pace is a problem. And his defense is not fine. Or at least it wasn't on Friday for the Stewart try. He had 2 attempts at tackling Stewart and got brushed off both times.
Yep, get him in
he missed the first tackle, and that was that. Hustling to get another crack just shows how slow steward is! Show me another Leinster winger who hasn’t missed a tackle. And we are talking about wing options for Ireland, Lowes defence for Ireland has been more than adequate for years.
'Defence fine'? I take it you missed the match this weekend?
And now trying to put the emphasis on Steward for being too slow. That's an odd take.
Lowe is both slow and lazy.
He often gives up the chase too easily.
MOD EDIT
It was mentioned before that some players get multiple opportunities over entire seasons to play themselves into form, while others get a single chance to 'seize the opportunity'
MOD EDIT Poster warned
Lowe is … lazy.He often gives up the chase too easily.
Lowe is … lazy.
Give us two examples of this. Should be easy for you.
Give us a few examples, video coverage would be ideal as well
As he "often" does it then it should be easy to pick out
Calling a very high achieving, Lion, Irish International and Leinster player lazy without producing any proof is lazy! If you don't like him that is fine but you seem to be portraying a personal animosity towards him.
Without real competition for places, all teams stagnate and decline
This is true for any team but the issue in this particular instance isn’t Farrell’s loyalty, it’s the absence of a real alternative making a strong case to displace the incumbent.
On the opposite wing, we had a guy who came from nowhere, got his first cap in Georgia and then started all four November tests. Some guys grab their chances, others don’t.
I'd argue, with Stockdale's improved form and Lowe's dis-improved form over the last 12-18 months, that Stockdale has made a strong case, tbh. All things being equal, I wouldn't have been at all surprised to see Stockdale leapfrog Lowe by the end of the 6 Nations, for example. But that's probably a moot point now with the Hansen and Keenan injuries.
Also think "Some guys grab their chances, others don’t." is far too simplistic a reading of the situation, when you include injuries in the whole context - both to Stockdale and the incumbents tbh. It also begs the question but for the injury, would TOB have gotten his chance at all.
It can't be the case that, when a player gets an opportunity because of injury and then plays well, that he has "seized the opportunity", but in other positions when there are no injuries to the incumbents, that the guys outside the 23 aren't good enough.
They can be plenty good enough but just not getting an opportunity, due to injuries or otherwise.
I absolutely don't think it's clear that Lowe is out best left-winger any more.
While that's true, it's also apples and oranges. We're talking about being first choice. As soon as Mack Hansen comes back, TOB is off the right wing. It would be the same as the Lowe situation if Hansen weren't injured, and TOB leapfrogged him.
Anyway, I suppose we can do nothing but wait and see and judge the results.
Edit - I see @aloooof made much the same point.
