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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    And possible yellows for SFM and PsDT when the game was in the balance. The PsDT one being overlooked was particularly interesting seeing as he carded Crowley for a similar offence just minutes later. It was interesting what Conor Murray and Gerry Thornley had to say in their articles yesterday in the Irish Times. The penalty timeline does nothing to dispel the perception of him as a ‘snowball referee’. He did the exact same thing against Fiji when they played Wales in RWC2023.


    By the letter of the law, Matthew Carley can argue that his five yellow cards were legitimate.

    I’ve tried talking to Carley in games when he has decided to repeatedly penalise Munster. Too many times, I’ve been waved away without a proper explanation.

    The same frustration was visible on Caelan Doris’s face as the Ireland captain sought to engage with the English referee. Nothing was coming back.

    I call him a snowball ref. He rolls with decisions made in the opening minutes, even if they don’t apply by the hour mark. One slow call in particular got under my skin. In the second-half Ireland held up the South Africa maul. Before giving the most obvious call – “Scrum Ireland” – Carley ran around the other side, almost looking to reward the Boks.

    True, it was yet another bad month for World Rugby’s foul play processes, and the officiating of said processes. Three rescinded cards should not be happening with up to five officials adjudicating on each instance, any more than Matthew Carley and his officials coming to the wrong conclusion that Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu’s high hit on Tommy O’Brien didn’t warrant a card. In seemingly letting Rassie Erasmus get inside their heads, both the TMO and Carley were far too hasty in wrongly decreeing that the initial contact was to the chest and there was no evidence the Boks outhalf didn’t attempt to use his arms.

    It was an infuriating decision. It incensed the crowd and had a seismic affect on both Carley’s refereeing thereafter and perceptions of it, as when not yellow carding Pieter-Steph du Toit before doing so to Jack Crowley three minutes later for an identical offence. Carley did similar when Toulouse beat Leinster after extra time, hastily binning James Lowe for batting the ball out of play having not come to the same decision when Anthony Jelonch committed the same offence to deny Dan Sheehan a try early on.

    Yet English pundits believe Carley had a great game on both occasions.Murray’s description of Carley as a snowball referee seems apt. What made Carley’s decision on Feinberg-Mngomezulu even more ridiculous was that he had the cop-out of a yellow card and referring the incident to the bunker review for a possible 20-mintue red card.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭jimbob955


    If you pick Stewart then who do you drop? Maybe pick 4 hookers in the squad?

    You can’t drop Sheehan, Kelleher is a lion. You can’t drop Gus. Gus has huge potential and a high ceiling. MOD EDIT

    Stewart also won’t be playing Heineken cup this year. No matter how well he plays, you can’t drop the first 3.

    Post edited by Lost Ormond on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Our discipline doesn't improve by the ref penalising SA more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I would say it does have an impact as it takes pressure off the defence. That seemed to happen in the last 10 minutes where we didn’t get penalised once and Carley decided to start penalising SA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭Packrat




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,248 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Why can't you drop Gus?

    If Sheehan and Kelleher are in for all the big games and Gus is getting minutes in league games, then why would Stewart not get a look in if he's first choice for Ulster in the URC and in their European games?

    If Stewart is playing more games and is playing well then why pick Gus who's playing less games as third choice Leinster hooker?

    Ceiling?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    McCarthy will still be involved as a 24th man for Leinster's European Cup games, and will be straight into the XXIII if there's an injury to Sheehan or Kelleher. And even if he doesn't appear in these game he'll still be doing the warmup.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    It does change the nature of the game though. If the game is tighter do SA turn down 3 points in front of posts to scrum or will they need to keep the scoreboard moving?

    If SA are down a man abd concede a 5/7 pointer that changes everything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog


    In isolation, it might be acceptable to blame Carley but our discipline has been poor now for a while. I don't see any benefit for Ireland if the coaches take the view that our penalties are because a ref is a snowball ref.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 603 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    If all three Ireland options in one position come from the same province, it stops being healthy competition and starts looking like groupthink. Great for that dressing room, bad for the wider game: fewer styles, less pressure on selection, and other provinces quietly lose incentive and investment in that role.



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,397 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Munster just signed a South African hooker for next season



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Who said the coaches were? They’ll try to control what they can control. No one is arguing that discipline hasn’t been poor by our high standards since RWC2023.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Bit of a strange one considering they only signed Lee Baron 6 months ago. It’s not a great message to be sending out to IQ players when the IRFU is trying to encourage them to switch province for regular game time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭jimbob955


    ya exactly, can’t drop Gus, he will get plenty of minutes with rotation anyway the next few months so we will be In fine fettle for the 6nations camp.
    tough on Stewart but thems the breaks, with such riches of talent!

    On the plus for Ulster Wilson looks interesting, might turn into a decent player, bring him in and drop bealham?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Hmmm, I don't know about Wilson. He looks good and has played a lot, but I don't think Farrell's all that keen.

    It might be better to keep Bealham involved for a while longer and bring Niall Smyth in as a training panellist. Then Smyth will be good to go in a year or two's time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I didn't anyway so I don't know why you asked me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Exactly, so you did bring it up as a possibility. I’m not sure why you’re asking someone on a forum why they’re quoting and replying to you about something you’ve posted it. It’s probably best to not act like you’ve never brought it up though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 603 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    Leinster signed a South African lock with James Ryan and Joe McCarthy in their squad.
    Anyway , that’s kind of my point. If Leinster and Munster are filling key spots with South Africans, Ireland has to spread the homegrown options around. Otherwise you’ve foreign lads in the provinces and the same three Irish jerseys ring-fenced for one club. That’s not healthy depth.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭jimbob955


    good idea as well, smyth ticks all the boxes and would be familiar with the other 8 front rowers. He would know the ropes etc . Safer bet than picking Wilson I feel



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,686 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    I think its fair to say , despite some claims, Jeremy Looghman isn't the answer to Irelands scrum issues



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,397 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    If you can't see the difference between signing a SA lock to cover when your two international locks are away..... And the signing of a SA hooker when you have developed one international hooker in 20 years (being generous to Niall scannel here) then there's no helping you in afraid.

    On top of that, since scannel made his debut Munster have imported at hooker, 2 kiwis, an English man, a Leinster player and now a south African.

    that's not exactly an attractive destination for any young hooker with international aspirations to move there, from a development point of view.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I never said the Coaches were using the ref as an an excuse for their ill discipline but you're obviously spoiling for some sort of scrap so I'll let you have the last word



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 603 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    I do see the difference but you’re kind of proving my point for me.
    If Munster’s pathway at 2 has been that bad and all three Ireland hookers end up based in one province, you’ve basically written off one province entirely. Imports at provincial level and a single province bottleneck at test level is exactly how you kill pathways elsewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Not spoiling for fight at all. Just responded to what you posted which you seemed to take exception to. Anyway, I agree, let’s leave it there. We both agree Ireland’s discipline needs to improve.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,397 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    You're not exactly asking yourself WHY there's a provincial bottleneck at one province though, are you?

    it sounds like you want a communistic system where ability and enterprise is not rewarded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,686 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Great to see Ahearn go well, he's a bit of a freak and could give Ireland alot of options



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    I wonder is Andy Farrell watching, probably not , but Playing a SA team with a much better scrum and lineout and Munster are still winning, playing the game in the areas they cab win it in.

    Andy could learn a lot from this



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    You’d think he could shore up the lineout and baring in mind that’s where we like to attack from that would be huge. Would prefer to see him get a run there rather than moving Beirne.



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