It was widely rumoured for that EI tour that the provinces had the right to refuse certain players travelling on that tour if they really needed them in that window, and the Munster blocked Ben Healy from travelling.
Crowley was always ahead of Ben through the ages and thought of as better option just Ben was few years ahead in terms of school so had head start at pro level, Crowley did only a year in academy he bypassed Ben. Ben left for Scotland at end of Crowleys first year on a senior contract.
I'm no scrum expert either but McCarthy's body position and shape seems to me to be superior to Porter.
its not 'manipulating' anything, its refining the parameters to remove the data before SP broke into the starting team - seeing as that is what is actually in question. posters on here regularly distinguish between overall minutes v minutes against top level opposition so how is this any different?
in the 6Ns (arguably the most important part of this) the ratio of gametime at 10 was 78:22 in Prendergast's favour - whether you think that is 'manipulating' the stats or not, thats not an equal sharing of gametime at 10 in my opinion
And looking back at this, the last time Healy played more than a half of rugby for Ireland was as far back as the last game of 6 Nations in 2021/22.
Following that, he played 22 times and averaged 14.5 minutes.
We were very fortunate we didn't need him earlier in games thru injury, in his last number of years, imo.
It is very much not discarding him either. I would be highly curious if you could point to any successful team that had anything close to a 50/50 split of gametime at 10? Can only imagine possibly the French at some point but it would be highly unusual.
David Humphreys being sat on his arse for every last minute of a 6N leading to him retiring is an example of discarding a player unnecessarily.
i never said it was a good idea, i was responding to the poster who originally said that the 10 jersey had been shared relatively equally between the two current options
Ben Healy is 6 months older (June 1999 v Jan 2000), and I dunno if your argument about Crowley being “always ahead” stands up to scrutiny.
Healy left school in 2018, and was added straight to the Munster Academy that year.
Crowley left school in 2019, but spent a year in the sub-academy before joining the full academy in Sept 2020.
Healy had already made his Munster senior debut almost a year earlier than that (Nov 2019), aged just 20.
Coming into that 22/23 season there is no question who was higher in the pecking order. At that point - Jack Crowley had started 5 total games for Munster, had played in 17 games total for a grand total of 506 mins.
Ben Healy, once again just 6 months older - had at that time racked up 18 starts (more than 3x Crowley), had played in 43 games (2.5x Crowley) for a total of 1,717 mins (3.3x Crowley’s mins at that point).
And difference comes overwhelmingly when you compare the 3 teams games from our game against Wales while England France both got big wins Wales managed to perform better against us and we only got 2 tries
For me that doesnt mean we look like a team in decline at all.
Who cares how many minutes was played by either player? Is it worth an argument?
outside of just minutes, it depends when you get them. Coming on at 10 is very different from starting at 10 when you get a chance to stamp your authority on a game and set the agenda, coming on you are often either chasing a game, when its easy to try and force it, or the games done and its an armchair ride.
Thornley's "possible" team; think I'd be happy with this XV, a good few changes but not turning it into a Wolfhounds game where we learn nothing. A bit more youth on the bench would be good though.
Osborne; T O’Brien, Ringrose, Aki/Henshaw, Stockdale; Crowley, Casey; Porter, Kelleher, Clarkson; Ryan, Beirne; Baird, Timoney, Doris (capt).
Replacements: Boyle, Sheehan, Furlong, Henderson/Ahern, Conan/van der Flier, Gibson-Park, Prendergast, Farrell.
Who cares how many minutes was played by either player?
The players, the fans?
Is it worth an argument?
Why is a discussion an argument only when a poster disagrees with the discussion?
I'd be pretty happy with that.
Interesting to see how guys like Stockdale & Timoney go, and good opportunity for Tom Clarkson to keep building from some very good showings.
Centres are becoming a real issue, would like to see Aki/Farrell pairing but we have to start blooding someone else and I know Farrell isnt the answer with his age either but not sure what we learn from Ringrose and or Henshaw playing v Japan. Could we not play someone else at 15 and give Osbourne a run at 13? Sheehan should start at 2, he needs minutes and wasnt great last week. Have to think Beirne is only playing because of not playing last week basically but would like to see him off at 60 minutes.
Persisting with Osborne at FB and starting Aki/Henshaw in the 12 jersey seems like a retrograde step to me. Having Henderson on the bench too would be a poor selection IMO.
Who's the 3rd option at scrumhalf, surely this game is where you'd play him
Plus, I also don't see why Porter needs to start this one, meaning the likelihood is he'd start all 4 games (assuming he doesn't pick up an injury).
Thornley's been wrong before tho, so lets see…
Caolin Blade is the third scrumhalf in the squad.
Man, if that's the center combo he goes with for Japan, I give up. Ridiculous
15. Jamie Osborne (Naas/Leinster)(9) 14. Tommy O’Brien (UCD/Leinster)(3) 13. Tom Farrell (Lansdowne/Munster)* 12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster)(82) 11. Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster)(39) 10. Jack Crowley (Cork Constitution/Munster)(27) 9. Craig Casey (Shannon/Munster)(21)
1. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)(76) 2. Rónan Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)(40) 3. Thomas Clarkson (Dublin University/Leinster)(8) 4. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster)(73) 5. Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster)(62) 6. Ryan Baird (Dublin University/Leinster)(30) 7. Nick Timoney (Banbridge/Ulster)(4) 8. Caelan Doris (St Mary’s College/Leinster)(52)(captain)
Replacements:
16. Gus McCarthy (UCD/Leinster)(6) 17. Paddy McCarthy (Dublin University/Leinster)(1) 18. Finlay Bealham (Corinthians/Connacht)(52) 19. Cian Prendergast (UCD/Connacht)(5) 20. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)(52) 21. Caolin Blade (Galwegians/Connacht)(3) 22. Sam Prendergast (Lansdowne/Leinster)(10) 23. Jimmy O’Brien (Naas/Leinster)(10)
Plenty of changes: Tom Farrell in for a debut at 13, Casey in at 9 (with Blade on the bench), Stockdale in for Lowe on the wing, Clarkson in at THP, Kelleher starting with Gus McCarthy on the bench, Timoney in at openside and Doris starts.
Cian Prendergast gets another chance off the bench, and Jimmy O'Brien back in a match squad again.
Good side I think.
Some interesting selections especially in the pack. Looks like Paddy McCarthy may actually have leapfrogged Boyle. Good to see Clarkson and C Prendergast there too.
Lack of alternative options at 15 really means one of aki / henshaw had to start at 12. Apart from that it's a decent enough line up.
Interesting to see how Casey / Crowley get on running the game tempo and position
??
He's on the bench covering the back three.
What's your point??
At 12.28pm you complained about not giving players a shot.
At 12.42pm, you complained about making too many changes.
Wonderful.
I would have preferred JoB to start over Osbourne to try and get some pace into the back 3.
And Osbourne to 12 ideally.
I would have preferred JOB to start at 15 so Osborne could start at 12, but that doesn't appear to be on the management's radar at all so so be it.
How is any coach watching Henshaw this season and coming away with the opinion that he's a viable option at 12? He's looked washed up playing in the URC, let alone international level. Put Frawley there, if you're going to insist on Osbourne at 15.
