He presided over a period when France, Wales and England were all strong for his entire time in charge. He only got one year right at the beginning of the French collapse. Schmidt coached at the weakest period of French rugby in over 30 years. While Farrell has been in charge, Wales have completely and utterly collapsed as a competitive force.
i'll give you that the overall percentage is bad, but saying 'since 2000' is a random distinction seeing as that was in the middle of gatland's term - which was a lower percentage
i'll agree that the team declined as his tenure went on and he definitely should have brought in younger players earlier, but that has been true of all irish coaches and is arguably true of the current one. but going through 2009 unbeaten and beating australia in RWC 2011 were massive achievements
you blame murray and o gara for losing the QF v wales - did either of them miss the simple enough tackle on davies for his try? did they let phillips walk along the sideline for an incredibly soft try? they didnt play particularly brilliantly all the same but some of the biggest names on the team played terribly that day
kidney does however, deserve alot of criticism for signing the 10 from ulster who shall not be named when he was coaching london irish
If you're trying to build a depth option, fine.
However, this started as a conversation of Gavin Coombes as an option because he's 'a try-scoring machine' as if he is in the same league as the other two as an all-round rugby player - which he is not.
How is Gavin Coombes an example of selection conservatism?
He is not in the same league as Doris and Conan. I'm sorry but that is a fact.
People bang on as if he should be in the matchday squads. Ahead of who? The captain or the two-time Lion?
No, I'm asking those who think Coombes should be in the matchday squad who, out of the Ireland captain or the two-time Lion, they are dropping to make way for a player who is inferior to both of them.
Do you believe he is better than Doris and/or Conan?
And if we go and win the championship are you going to shut up and tell us all that we should trust Farrell?
I very much doubt that.
You build depth by giving players a chance to play. When you stick to the same squad then you'll end up like we did the QF, players playing like their in a field of treacle
Nobody is suggestion Doris should be dropped or the 2 time lion you keep referring to.
What people are suggesting is that why not look at him esp this season with the style of play munster have.
Who do you play at 8 if Vdf & Conan are out assuming Doris goes to 7.
I can never understand why people are slow to look at players that are consistently in form for club.
Is it too far a reach?
Again, that's fine.
However, the conversation was about Coombes as 'an option' because he's a 'try-scoring machine' not as building depth.
The conversation was about 'conservative selections' because Andy Farrell chooses to go with the captain and the two-time Lion over the player who, by the time the next World Cup comes, might not even be the best 8 in Munster.
Maybe my memory is failing but when did Doris play 7 before?
Did he not play there when he first came on the scene...Autumn nations cup
Ireland scored 17 tries in the last 6N. France 30, England 25. That's mostly with Sam playing 10. That looks like a team in decline and they picked up right where they left off last week.
I'd be playing Doris at 8 and Timoney at 7, personally.
And I've no problem looking at players who are in form for their club, but it's clear to anyone who has eyes and actually watches rugby - that Gavin Coombes is not at the same level as Doris and Conan as a rugby player.
You can rattle off all the stats from how Coombes plays against Zebre all you want, but both Doris and Conan are consistent performers at the highest level of the game.
"But Conan will be 35 at the next WC" - and yet he was still one of the better performers in the pack at the weekend. If Conan was showing signs of waning, absolutely there is a conversation to be had about whether he is the best depth option for the back row.
However, he's not. He's very much still at the top of his game - which is better than Coombes.
There's trying out players who are possibly better than the incumbants, but when the players ahead of him are the Ireland captain and one of the best in the world, as well as someone who literally just started every test in the last two Lions tours, then honestly it's a conversation about playing someone just to please a certain cohort.
The conversation is around using someone like Coombes rather than sticking to the same squad every time
Grand, so how do you propose using Coombes against England or France?
And, who are you dropping out of the squad to do so?
Thirdly, what use will this use of Coombes be when he's possibly not even the starting 8 for his province come the next World Cup?
The management see who the next up from Munster is, and it's Brian Gleeson.
Do Ireland only play against England and France?
The idea should be you use players outside of the 6Ns and RWCs to build squads so that if you need them during a game v France or England that they're up to speed with how the team play
Timoney....the guy they clearly don't trust who has 3 starts to his name over the past 5 seasons but each to their own.
Some are happy that they keep playing the 2 you keep referring to regardless of opposition...I'd like to see Timoney/Coombes/Prendergast get more game time rather than flogging the 7& 8 we have.
All dandy til we arrive at a critical junction & we have o e or both missing.
I get it at it 10 position but we have great options in the backroom to look at.
Thats what the conversation is about...not dropping Doris & the 2 time lion you keep referencing Conan as.
Yes, he's played 7 for Ireland and Leinster a number of times. He started at 7 in a couple of games against Italy and I think one against Fiji and maybe 2 or 3 games for Leinster too but mostly he's been used at 6 if not at 8.
I don't have a dog in the Coombes v everyone else race but Conan wasn't great on Saturday. He didn't play with the kind of physical aggression that he often does, as Doris showed coming off the bench. And the fact that Conan will be 35 is relevant to his selection. It's not crazy to think that a player who likely won't be around for the WC should concede game time in the meantime to a player who will. I really don't want a situation again where the likes of a geriatric Sexton is still on the field 70 minutes into a 1/4 final because the coach hasn't developed an alternative. Conan had a very good 6 nations so being off the boil on Saturday doesn't mean much but he is getting on.
Yes, Nick Timoney. The same Nick Timoney who:
And I keep referring to Conan as the two-time Lion because that's what he is. It is representative of the vast gulf in quality between Jack Conan and Gavin Coombes, which doesn't appear to be clicking with you.
One of the excus- sorry, themes of this conversation is to build depth to the next World Cup.
The coaching staff clearly have that in mind - Brian Gleeson.
You speak about the 10 position - we were all having the same conversation about Sexton before he retired. We need to build depth. We need to look to the future. Blah blah blah.
Sexton would still start in the Ireland team today. Crowley, Prendergast, Frawley etc aren't fit to lace his boots, if we're being very honest about it.
Same rule applies to Coombes and Doris/Conan. Fair play to Coombes for playing well for his province, but for all of us who watch rugby with our eyes and not with numbers, we know how far away he really is from the top level and how his own provincial position is nowhere near safe.
The only Irish forward better than Conan on Saturday was Baird.
Mod edit
Equally, time waits for no man, some players can have a noticeable drop off in their performances as they age.
And we're talking about the man who only a few months ago was the starting 8 for the Lions.
Who's we?
Petes sake thats a bit unfair. Maybe Coombes shouldnt go straight in against An Englad or a France but he deserves some form of shot at International Level. It isnt that people want players dropped from a match day squad but other additional players picked so we can look at additional depth to build towards the world cup and in general. Coombes form for some time with Munster has been very good. We dont know yet if he is international quality as he hasnt been picked but i think theres something wrong if a player is consistently very good at provincial level across most metrics either side of the ball and isnt given a shot at even training with the irish set up. You dont have to drop someone from the overall squad for Coombes to be added. Match day squads are different but thats based on what happens at camp. Coombes doesnt seem to get that far enough and that isnt right
Talking about Coombes shouldnt be picked because he might not be 8 for Munster is a complete strawman argument and if we were to go like that then we wouldnt be picking a lot of players and instead would be picking x and y from the various academys
You cold copy and paste the comment into Ai and have that read it for you.
"Conan had a very good 6 nations so being off the boil on Saturday doesn't mean much"
Didnt know Conan played for the Lions😁😁
Joke aside there was a huge error in not having a viable alternative to Sexton.
No harm in having viable alt in every position surely you can see the benefit of that.
In fairness all on here are are watching with our eyes...a difference of opinion doesnt mean we are watching by numbers
POM captained the Lions and lo and behold, a few years later he retired. Assuming Conan willl still be playing at the required level in 2 years is fine on boards but not for the coaching team.
POM captained the Lions in 2017 and retired in 2025.
What has that got to do with anything here?
Sexton would still start for the Ireland team now, because no matter who the current golden boy is, they're not fit to lace his boots and they're not even anywhere near the level he was at when he retired.
And have we not been discussing viable alternatives at 8, where we currently have two top class players?
POM was starting for Ireland in the 6Ns he was retired by the summer.
