https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2025/03/15/cairn-homes-offers-clontarf-golf-club-land-swap-as-several-thousand-new-homes-envisaged/
Hopefully they don’t bite
Be crazy not to except that deal…negotiate a bit more out of cairn by all means but that club has no long term future there..
Theres a couple Dublin clubs in this position that would only love a land swap and cash
There already was a vote and was unanimously against a swap. So, no point in negotiating now because it wouldn't be in good faith and there is no mandate from the members to do this.
I'm sure there are some members who would like a payout but they want similar numbers to the last offer.
How can they even propose a swap if it is a lease ?
And how can they expect a big payout for the same reason. Harking back to the Septic Kitten is a fool's game, that sort of rank stupidity should be gone never to return.
Its been clear for decades now that maintaining an short 18-hole golf course in a prime residential area is no longer practicable nor to even the benefit of the wider area.
Dun Laoghire have set the example.
On the other hand you have Bray Golf Club which was bought out on a land swap deal, the golf club is doing fine, but the wider area would not benefit since the golf course was on a flood plain and the building works could not commence for many years and only then on a strictly limited basis.
Can't see the likes of Milltown or Elm Park selling out.
That’s absolutely rubbish, it’s entirely practical. Clontarf have a waiting list and a joining fee, so they have no trouble with membership numbers and generally very few need the money on offer. As mentioned above Elm Parks land would be worth over a billion, castle and milltown lands would be worth 500 milllion or so and no question or mention of them selling.
If anything dun laoighre set an example of how the social side of a club can collapse with a move like that.
I agree completely @copacetic. I've made the point before that it's an excellent club which handles an amazing number of rounds per week and it should be preserved.
The housing market is even worse than it was at celtic tiger times. And developers like Cairn are fine paying huge sums for land like this as they know the units will be bought long before they are even finished.
But they're not offering the "huge sums" as before. Quite significantly lower, even after a couple of bites at the cherry. Which means there's a sense of what's realistic and what's not.
The selling prices are astronomical, but so are the costs. So it's not as lucrative for developers as it was back in the day.
I don't play golf and only ever been into Clontarf club for a social occasion, but as a local I'd hate to see it go. Its a beautiful green space in the middle of a city, that alone has to be benefiting the environment. Why is everything up for grabs? Who would really benefit here apart from Cairn homes and their shareholders? The homes won't be affordable for the vast majority of people and the cultural and social importance of the golf club for its members and surrounding neighbours will be lost.
The practicality has nothing to do with membership numbers, joining fees, waiting lists or anything of that ilk.
The self-evident inefficiency of that land seems to be foreign to you strange.
Your argument applies to a lot of golf clubs in that case, surely?
Yes of course it does...
There's a reason you cant play golf in Manhattan, Westminster or Paris.
Cities with a large population and expensive housing do not have golf courses near their centre due to the self-evident inefficiency of that land use. Dublin is actually a very strange exception to this across Europe.
Whether you sell that land now or in another 100 years the time will come. Same goes for Elm Park and the rest.
Cities tend to have other green spaces though. London has 33%, Dublin city has 17%. The Phoenix park is one of the biggest in Europe at over 1,750 acres. It's not always about efficiency.
Why not subsume Parnell Park into the development while you're at it. Plenty of room across the road at Vincents to play football.
Even more efficient would be St. Stephen's Green. 27 acres of prime development land there. And of course the afore-mentioned Phoenix Park. Enough room for 10 golf courses all bigger than Clontarf.
What a facetious reply lol...ah sure why stop there imagine the amount of gone you could convert the Phoenix Park into
No it wouldn't though because public parks serve a much wider benefit to the public and even more so the more centrally there located.
I just told you the a reason central park in Manhattan is a public park and not a golf course.
Wasn't facetious. The fact that the Phoenix park takes up an area the size of 10 Clontarfs in the city centre is germane to this discussion. And what do you mean by the "amount of gone"?
You said Manhattan, Westminster and Paris (Cities with a large population and expensive housing). There are at least a couple of golf courses in Paris: Le Golf de Paris and Golf de Paris Longchamps.
Amenity area is amenity area, whether it's a golf course or a public park. And you completely ignored the flood plain element of some of these courses as was found in Bray.
Westminster is a tiny part of the inner city, why would it have gold courses? London itself has about 20 courses inside the m25, manhattan never had them and Paris has a couple as mentioned even though golf was a very late things coming to France. Presuming now that this is a wind up looking for a reaction.
"Amenity area is amenity area, whether it's a golf course or a public park."
Exactly and some are more valuable than others. A golf course is probably the most low value amenity you can get especially in a central location in a highly populated European capital city with a housing crisis.
Le Golf Paris is a 9 hole and Longchamp is a world famous racing track with a golf course inside it
There is absolutely no argument here to maintain this course in its existing location...I'm afraid.
"Exactly and some are more valuable than others."
So there is an argument to maintain the course in its current location. Just one that you don't consider compelling enough. Others (including the club members) would seem to disagree.
Of course the club members agree lol in other news Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
Your metaphor is misapplied. Unless turkeys regularly get rehomed along with a payout every Christmas.
You said it with such certainty.
But are you sure there are no golf courses in london ?- what makes london a great city is the variety in the City , I don't even need to try look up - but there are parks , football pitches, cricket pitches and various green spaces in London. In completely impractical places - but that is the idea , an escape from the city life inside the city - sure lets rip up the Tate and any green space you can find.
A city can't be just about building houses in it - it needs to be a balance of all aspects of life, what on earth would you need a zoo for - a lawn of a church . Sure the School next door has green spaces - rip them all up.
To ask a question again - why on earth should a private housing developer have any access to the land at all.
If there was any houses to be built at all- should be social housing.
Most land that is converted into housing in the area - is converted into apartments - and end up in some large scale acquisition by foreign investors , this has little to no benefit to the local community or Irish economy.
What are you waffling on about?! Private or social housing, zoos lol
Cities with a large population and expensive housing do not have golf courses near their centre, due to the VERY self-evident inefficiency of that land use....it is very simple lad.
Highgate golf club says hello - lad.
Relative to scales of cities it is fairly similar.
Also Dublin is not a large city.
Also - are you just trolling .
Hello....Highgate is nowhere near central london
1.5 million people in the wider Dublin area makes it large in my view.
People defending the most inefficient use of land during a housing crisis seem to be though
