Title suggestions welcome!
All discussion about squad selection etc should go here
You can't decide about today based on things that happened five and eight years ago. Players evolve by learning from experience.
Finn Russell has been brilliant on this tour. He's definitely in the conversation for player of the tournament if there is such an award.
my point is that he hasnt learned though? he is doing the same thing in 'big' moments that he always has, imo
i would say he has also played very well at times on this tour, absolutely. but as mentioned already, my original reply was in response to a poster saying he managed the final sequences of phases brilliantly and i disagreed as i believe the try was scored out of luck and some poor one on one defending, rather than being a well-worked 'team' try, and that FR should have went for a drop goal much earlier
Behind lowe though
He nearly f*cked it all up on the phase before Keenan scored. Ran sideways, then cut back into two tacklers, and a hospital pass shovelled to Ryan who did exceptionally well to avoid an accidental office with JGP and to then gain a few metres.
Yep, that Ryan carry was a 'sliding doors moment'. Probably got less attention than it deserved because play continued with the twin moments of Keenan's 'Barry Backfield's' try and the Morgan clearout review.
Biggest moment of the game for me was the non appearance of Valetini after half time. That was the point at which I felt 'we're going win this'.
Wright choosing to run away from the posts to score really fucked Australia.
Ringrose out for the last test but McCarthy and Hansen make training so might make the team on Saturday.
Tuipolotu fit again too - I wouldn't be shocked to see him come back in for Bundee too.
For me Lowe isn't even a consideration. He's done good work but hasn't been outstanding. Beirne, Russell, Sheehan, JGP and Conan would be the five I'd consider the best.
Conan for me has been brilliant.
Conan has been brilliant. Needs to work on his smile though.
Shite buzz for Ringrose, desperately unlucky.
Goodman is quoted in the IT as saying they'll pick the best team for the third test, so I suppose wholesale changes are unlikely.
McCarthy will likely come back in, which might mean Ryan loses out but based purely on last weekend, I'd keep him ahead of Chessum. Tuipolotu being fit again might be bad news for Aki.
It will be interesting to see if Hansen features, Freeman was good on Saturday and they seem to really like Kinghorn.
I would go with the following based on who I think is the best player available in each position: Genge, Sheehan, Stuart, Itoje, Chessum, Beirne, Conan, Morgan, JGP, Russell, Lowe, Farrell, Jones, Freeman, Kinghorn. Bench: Kelleher, Porter, Furlong, McCarthy, Curry, Mitchell, Keenan, (Van der Flier or Aki).
Wouldn't consider Stuart the best in his position.
Nor do I think Farrell will go with 7 subs 😂
Accidentally left out Curry, corrected now, and Stuart was nominated best tighthead of the six nations in the team of the tournament. Just rate him, others might prefer Furlong, I don't think Furlong has been that good so far.
Furlong would be starting his 9th consecutive Lions test if he's picked (I think) which is a pretty impressive feat. Not sure anyone else in the squad would come close.
Itoje will be on his 8th if he is selected - he was on the bench for the first test in 2017, but started the two subsequent tests and all three in SA.
Jack Conan will start his 6th consecutive Lions test too if selected.
Was gonna say hes never started more than 2 in a row for Ireland but he started the whole SA tour. Still though 5 is already more in a row than he has ever done for Ireland. Bit mad
Alun Wyn Jones started 9 lions tests in a row....played in 12 lions tests in a row...started in 10 out of the 12 of those.
Smart kid though - its not worth the long term issues.
Imagine being Steve Thompson, having won a World Cup and not being able to remember it.
Reports of Valentini being out of saturdays game. Coupled with alaalatoa already being ruled out, that will hurt aussie big time.
Yeah - rumours also saying they expect Nic White to come in at scrum half for Jake Gordon, with Dylan Pietsch coming in on the wing for the injured wizard.
I find this interesting - while it looks like Tracy's comments are specifically comparing Dan Sheehan's global level of renown and recognition in the game to Keith Wood's, I think as a player Sheehan has already surpassed him.
Not trying to take anything away from Wood, who is an all-time Irish great, and it's obviously always difficult comparing across generations, but I think Sheehan is better than Wood at virtually all parts of the game (possible exception for Wood's cultured kicking game).
Wood's key strengths were his impact in the loose and his pace and power - Sheehan is, even comparing for the relative difference in standards of the opposition - markedly better at these IMO. Sheehan is also an excellent line out thrower and a solid scrummager - Wood's line out throwing did occasionally let him down.
Once again - I'm not posting this to denigrate Wood, more to highlight that Sheehan is an all time elite talent, who, for me, is Ireland's greatest ever hooker now.
Comparing players from different eras is fruitless.
You need to compare the impact both had in their generation. It's the only fair way.
We don't know what Keith Wood would be like in today's game with different trainng, diet and how you play the game. We don't know what Dan Sheehan would be like back then either.
Hard to get accurate team sheets for the older tours but it would appear that the wee McBride made 12 test teams in a row out of his 18 caps against international teams.
Yeah, but the eras aren't that far apart either. I'm not comparing Sheehan to Ronnie Dawson or even Ciaran Fitzgerald, I'm comparing him to someone who retired just 22 years ago (and he was young in doing so at 31 years old).
As I said, I think Keith Wood would have absolutely thrived in the modern game and in some of the better Irish teams that followed his era, I still just think Dan Sheehan is a guy who is materially bigger, stronger, faster and a better set piece operator.
We're in an era where we have a few lads currently playing who I'd argue are the best ever in their position for Ireland. Sheehan, Furlong, Beirne, Doris, JGP & Keenan.
Yeah, I think I'd go along with most of those.
JGP v peak Conor Murray would still be up for debate IMO - I think there was a period of time when Aaron Smith slightly fell off from his peak level (around the Lions tour in 2017 and the 2018 season) and Conor Murray was probably the best 9 in the world.
Furlong is definitely and indisputably the best tight head we've ever produced.
I think Doris is the most talented No 8, but doesn't quite have the medals cabinet to show for it yet. Really unfortunate injury robbed him of his chance to probably captain this Lions team.
It's hard to make meaningful "best ever" comparisons between the pro and amateur eras. People always raise the issue of modern sports science advancements as a key difference, and it is, but there's also the fact that during the amateur era, folk played for the love of the game, using their holiday leave to tour for the Lions. Not all modern Lions (or even internationals) would have that drive or that will.
Agreed with Furlong at TH, and Beirne (along with O'Connell) as 2nd row. At the moment, you could flip a coin between Doris vs Heaslip and Keenan vs Kearney, but I expect both the current players to be considered ahead by the end of their career.
But whatever about the rest, I don't think JGP comes close to Murray in any discussion around our best ever in their respective positions.
