https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/jun/13/israel-iran-strikes-defence-minister-tehran-middle-east-live
Reports stating that Israel have launched an attack against Iran
I didn't accuse them. It's a fact. If you don't like it being pointed that is your problem not mine. The Ukranians aren't going to criticise a close ally of America. Bibi and Putin have expressed past admiration for each other too. It's not a surprise given they share simliar traits
It amazes me that a building being damaged or partially destroyed with minimal casualties by a missile strike is treated like some watershed tide-turning moment
The simple truth is that Israel is beating the brakes off Iran.
Well that was a fairly snappy 180 degree turn in the space of a couple of sentences.
There were quite a few posts here over the last few days barely able to hold their utter joy at Iran "getting their a***s" wipped". They certainly felt it was a mega tide-turning moment. Seems you might be in the same camp? "beating the brakes off" is not a phrase I'm familiar with but sounds pretty gung-ho to me.
No-one should glorify death and destruction in conflict.
I would suggest the conspiracy theories forum with that complete garbage.
"Zero Israeli jets over Iran". "Iran has secretly built a world class defense network to counter the US".
That's so unhinged and incompatible with reality it's disturbing.
Tone of the Israeli media coverage has changed considerably in the last 24-48 hours. Gone is the exuberance and high fiving of each other from last weekend - sounds much more anxious and with apocalyptic warnings of what might happen now.
So, this is a conflict that Iran cannot lose?
You sound like Comical Ali.
One missile strike and you guys act like Putin and his 3-day special operation…
MOD: Uncivil - Warning issued
Only one country is getting its arse handed to them, and it aint Israel. As to the law itself, id wait until this is confirmed personally.
God forbid the IDF poster boys/girls weren't able to sustain your view of them. That would definitely be an utterly deflating experience I'd imagine.
Whatever your views on Israel, those boys sure can fight a war. Pound for pound, is there a better military apparatus in the world?
Bit of the exuberance gone from here too it would appear. And that's a good thing - there's nothing attractive about death and destruction.
There's no snappy turn, just a basic understanding of reality vs fantasy.
What has Iran accomplished militarily since this conflict began?
Is it more, or less impactful than Israel destroying Iran's air defense, establishing air superiority, eliminating senior leadership, rendering their air force null and void?
I don't hold "utter joy" at Iran being decimated, but they are getting decimated, and the complete denial of that reality is frankly, disturbing.
As is the repeated insistence that Iran did "nothing" to invite this, despite Iran declaring Israel its enemy, an entity to be destroyed, and heavily funding islamic militias to attack Israel with rockets for decades after the revolution.
It's a lie, from Israel.I spent some time in Iran, and am in contact with a couple of people there.
It's a lie, from Israel.
I spent some time in Iran, and am in contact with a couple of people there.
Sure you have, even though there is near total internet outage in Iran at the moment….
From what I've been told, from Tehran,
By whom, exactly?
You must remember, this is not another Iraq or Afghanistan. Both Israel and the US will be facing quite a capable enemy.
Capable? ROLF… Israel has killed their top generals, and generals who have replaced them have also been killed. Their missile launchers have been taken out, along with up to 50% of their S/A batteries.
Comical Ali stuff you are peddling.
Looking at the amount of KC-135's that were moved from the States late on Sunday night, together with the Carrier Groups repositioning in reach of Iran, I think the US knows full well that a fight with Iran is going to be unlike anything they have been involved with to date.
Iran has no air force, and I mean none, apart from 60 year old F-4's and the like. The only thing it had going for it was its missile arsenal, and that appears to be struggling to be effective.
Yea, they were so worried they reopened the economy today… very worried they are indeed…. :)
The simple truth is that Israel is beating the brakes off Iran
Odd that you would use a slang term that would appear to be more in keeping with sports dressing rooms.
I'm not sure if there any posts here denying that Iran is on the back foot - "decimated" might be a bit strong but I get your point.
I would have much preferred the situation to have been dealt with diplomatically and at least the arranged meeting with Iran to have been held rather than Israel simply launching their attack. War solves nothing.
Your reply has nothing to do with my post. It's a bit odd. Do you find it objectionable that a military force is actually good at its job, and that another military force is poor at theirs? This is what is happening now.
If you hate war so much why do you give Iran carte blanche in their arming and funding for proxy groups around the world?
"War is the continuation of policy with other means"
Israel is no innocent either. If you were even handed you would acknowledge that Israel has in fact also supported terrorism and helped to destabilise the region through its policies. Whose fault is it that Hamas and Hezbollah came into being in the first place. Now we have Bibi admitting their funding isis linked Gangs in Gaza. The reality is Likud has been happy to court Islamic terrorism over the years, even ex US officials and Israeli officials have gone on record about it. Bibi even bragged about it to his colleagues as to why it was a good idea to let the cash flow to Hamas because it would undermine the PA and stall any effort for a peace agreement .
It would be better if the current Israeli government and the Iranian government were off the scene because neither are really interested in peace.
and at least the arranged meeting with Iran to have been held rather than Israel simply launching their attack.
For that alone, Israel should be condemned to the rafters… not lauded as some sort of democratic country fighting on behalf of all of us in the west. They took out the Iranian negotiating team, not sure why Trump seemed to think the negotiations could continue.
Yes why schedule the meeting if you thought the other side had past your deadline and wasn't interested in a deal. Also as you mentioned why kill the lead negotiator on the other side who signalled on US tv that Iran was willing to do a deal?
I think there are two possible explanations; either it was a ruse by Donnie or he was blindsided by the Israelis then had to pretend he was in on it all along. In any case it has shattered his image as a deal maker who would not get America involved in any more wars- something he routinely criticised Democrats for.
If they haven't started a war and have no war aims, then how can they 'win' such a war? If they come through the other side without invasion, annihilation or regime change, that would represent a successful outcome from their defensive viewpoint.
So, if Iran comes through this without invasion, annihilation or regime change, but has all its nuclear facilities destroyed, that would represent a successful outcome from their defensive viewpoint?????
Neither the Russians, not the US, nor Pakistan are intent on an Islamic Jihad to wipe out our civilisation. The Ayatollahs are.
That is a big difference.
Israel launched the war unexpectedly with a list of war aims. The country being attacked out of the blue doesn't have any war aims (other than to survive being attacked). Discussing whether Iran is in a position to 'win' or 'lose' the war seems a bit pointless, when war was imposed on it against its will. The success or failure thing can really only be said to apply to Israel.
If there is a no regime change in iran that must be seen as a partial defeat for Israel. If Israel comes out of this period of conflict with hezbollah, hamas and Iran still around then they will only be causing headaches for their future generations. I cant see the Iranian regime collapsing no matter how much the country is bombed.
Israel launched this war with the primary aim of destroying Iran's nuclear capability. You are inventing other aims or promoting tangential aims. Nobody has mentioned invasion except you - if you knew anything about the Middle East, you would know how difficult it would be to invade Iran.
You are trying to shape a narrative of Israel losing, to an extent that is setting off alarm bells.
Well, Genocide is defined as the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group
So breaking that down
Deliberate - yes
Systematic - questionable as there's no proof to say they are deliberately targeting the civilians
Destruction - yes
National, ethnic, racial, or religious group - yes
In whole or in part - We can't say 'in whole' obviously but is 3% considered 'in part?' I guess if you get very very technical then yes it is, albeit a very small part
If you take your example of the Jews in Germany and its occupied territories in WW2 the Columbia Guide to the Holocaust puts the figure at 50% to 60% of the population murdered in 4 years. I'm not saying it needs to be that high but I'd argue it should be quite a bit more than the 3% of Gazans that have been killed
No, I'm saying that the prism of whether the war can be deemed as a success or failure can only be viewed through the eyes of the instigator. Israel wanted war and launched a Pearl Harbour style attack on Iran last Friday. The only metric we can use to decide the outcome is whether or not Israel succeeded or failed in its war aims - the country being attacked doesn't have any war aims other than to survive being attacked.
You are contradicting yourself.
You state first at 2:02 that if Iran comes through the other side without invasion, annihilation or regime, that would represent a successful outcome from their defensive viewpoint. None of those three objectives were part of Israel's thinking.
You then state at 2:27 that the prism of whether the war can be deemed as a success or failure can only be viewed through the eyes of the instigator, who you deem to be Israel. As Israel's aim is to pre-emptorily destroy Iran's nuclear capability (which they would have used to enhance their proxy attacks through Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis on Israel), then that is the metric.
Some footage of this mornings attack on Tel Aviv. Probably due to the attack happening in daylight when people are out and about. A total ban on filming attacks on military and defence production facilities now in force.
Warning - Some disturbing footage from the attack on Gaza this morning. Thread no 10
Israel have explicitly declared that regime change is a goal.
It is not the primary goal.
https://x.com/clashreport/status/1935684911660409157
Not sure if this is an empty threat, definite escalation along with Israels attack on a heavy water site in Iran earlier. Neither will back down and other world leaders sit on their hands or even worse "NoBoDy KnOwS WhAt I'lL dO!" because he doesn't know either.
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