https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/jun/13/israel-iran-strikes-defence-minister-tehran-middle-east-live
Reports stating that Israel have launched an attack against Iran
Who needs enemies when you have Hamas? The idea that they give a sh1t about Palestinians is laughable.
Yes, and in light of Israel's policy, maybe Iran should revise its own policy of small-time antagonism. It will neither de-escalate the situation nor destroy Israel. It's contributing to a lot of suffering and instability for supposed ally populations, though. By the time the current situation in Palestine is over, there may not be hardly a single Palestinian left living there.
Like them or loathe them, they're literally the only group fighting directly against the oppressors of the Palestinians.
And those oppressors are enacting a genocide, it's not like they're just sitting silently or maybe throwing a stone over a fence every now and then.
Because Bibi and the Israeli right always need an enemy and all the better if you can fear monger people into supporting your policies. Why do you think Shamir back in the 80s facilitated the rise of Hamas in the first place despite advisers warning him not to do so What was the real goal in allowing funding to reach Hamas in recent times? In fact we know the answer to that question because Bibi admitted it to colleagues that it was done to undermine the PA and stall any prospect of a two state solution
There's no liking them in any shape or form, they have not got any long term goals for Palestinians. It's blindingly obvious that they consider Palestinian civilians expendable in their pointless and ineffective attacks against Israel. The Palestinian cause has not moved forward in any way recently.
Obviously there is a lot to criticize Israel for, but there is always some tankie contingent that comes along and has to bring in some kind of sympathy towards the most horrendous groups.
Yes, although their actions on October 7th, 2023 could end up leading to a situation where the Palestinian territories cease to exist altogether. Would that be a victory or even a condition that would lead to future victory?
The problem with Israel is that they have little compunction about slaughtering every last Palestinian, and there's no-one else really trying to stop them, either. Hamas do not have the capability to match them directly on the battlefield. Insurgent movements work best when political matters prevent the oppressor from unleashing their full military power. We see that in our own history - the IRA fought against RIC men and various police auxiliaries in the main. There was no great desire among the British for a full military commitment coming off the back of world war one and a good deal of sympathy for the ordinary Irish suffering reprisal attacks from wayward British troops. But the negotiators of the Anglo-Irish treaty knew where their bread was buttered when threatened with 'immediate and terrible' war if the terms weren't accepted. They had the sense to know they couldn't take on a fully mobilised British army. This is a sense that Hamas don't seem to share in the modern day.
What you are reluctant to acknowledge is that Israel at both home and abroad has been happy to court Islamists when it suited their aims. You are correct about Hamas;they care as much about their own people as Bibi does. Also I can't defend people who send suicide bombers to bus stations to blow up civilians. There is nothing heroic about that
If Hamas directed its attacks solely at the army upholding the occupation I would support that as legitimate resistance. Pjohnson would still class it as terrorism but it would be no different from what irgun did in the 40s which many Israelis backed.
By inviting attacks on a civilian population, a great bunch of lads 🙄
Fair enough, like I said it's the tankie attitude that keeps popping up that's a pet peeve of mine. In this case we have Iran which has a regime that is everything from banal to pure evil, and as someone pointed out earlier have their own imperial-esque ambitions in the region and are supporting Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I'd love to see the regime fall, but not by Israel's reckless actions that might only drive support for the regime.
Of course there may also be more than Iran's nuclear ambitions going on, I wonder what role the Saudis are playing?
Iran can't do much of anything. Their military is a thing of the past. If they could actually fight back in a meaningful manner, Israel wouldn't do shit.
Israel is only interested when they can slaughter civilians and attack countries that have no way of striking back militarily.
Those attacks are going to come anyway, and there is no one else fighting for the Palestinians.
My sympathy is with the Palestinians and what they have to endure. But it is ignorant to attempt to justify what Israel is doing in attacking Iran while at the same time using what Hamas did as justification for what Israel is doing to Palestine. That couldn't be a more defined example of hypocrisy.
I'm not here or anywhere else to defend the actions of Hamas. But I have to recognize the environment in which they exist. So much in the West we see people talk about the force and response they will use if their lands are invaded or people persecuted, but when Hamas react to Israel's actions, they are roundly condemned with by those same people. That's a logic I have become very frustrated with these past 20 months.
And all that aside, there was evidence that Israel knew of an impending attack before Oct 7th and even at times that they had supported Hamas existence because of how it would help Israel achieve its goals. It's hard to think of something that Hamas has done that Israeli operatives or forces themselves haven't done and yet one group is castigated and denounced as terrorists, the other is justified as "having a right to defend itself". It's a hypocrisy I cannot abide.
Considering Israel's inclination to act like a wild dog Iran would be fools not to be pursuing some sort of nuclear capability.
There's a straight line between Trump pulling the US out of the Iran Nuclear deal in 2018 and the events of last night. This is Trump's conflict no matter what he is going to say about it on his propaganda app or affiliate news outlets.
This article at the time detailed just how illogical it was to do that and also how one of the reasons for him doing so was because of one Bibi Netanyahu. Netanyahu has played the US like a fiddle for over 25 years. It's embarrassing for the country. Or it should be.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43902372
Am I the only one that is thinking of the Armstrong and Miller "Are We the Baddies?" sketch, given that the main financier for this out-of-control gangster nuclear armed terrrorist state is of course the West.
"The West" is such a bollix term.
Saying we are all to blame for this is like saying all white Europeans are to blame for slavery and colonialism.
@Tell me how
But Hamas don't have the military capabilities to make their current policies work. If they did, Israel wouldn't be so able to turn Palestine into a pile of smouldering ruins, littered with starving people. You have to be realistic about your own capabilities when it comes to deciding on a strategy, if you want that strategy to be successful. It's the same reason why, if you're being bullied at school, it may be morally right to punch that bully on the nose, but it may not be strategically right to do if the bully is 6'4 and knows Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
As things stand, all Hamas are going to do is turn the Palestinians into a bunch of refugees living in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and elsewhere. What's left of them, that is.
What's also bollix is that the sketch I was thinking of was from Mitchell & Webb, not Armstrong & Miller. So I got you there, you didn't spot the deliberate error.
Not every conflict necessarily has “good guys.”
People can debate about the most abhorrent or lesser of the “evils.” But it wouldn’t be a loss to the world if both these regimes went by the wayside.
I think it's fairly okay to say that both Israeli and Iranian administrations are both cnuts.
If there was a way for them both to loose here, the world would be better off.
This speech will be very interesting
Yes, it's essentially two terrorist states in a stand off with each other. The only puzzling part is why western governments and media would wish to portray one of these terrorist states as 'good guys', especially when it is carrying out a genocide at the moment.
They are caught by the balls, not much they can do to respond without making things much worse.
And we are all against regimes that attack civilian populations aren’t we.
We both know the answer to this.
Israel has bought /bribed / naughty info on so many US politicians, they get to do what they want.
Germany is so guilt ridden over the Holocaust, they'll let Israel commit war crimes
Rest of the EU and UK? -making money on weapons.
Probably the usual tripe about revenge and the gates of hell opening on Israel, if Allah wills it.
No one told these fools Allah is on a prolonged holiday and has very little interest in protecting Muslims from the Zionist infidels
Lots of sh1te talking
it may be morally right to punch that bully on the nose,
If you see your very existent being systematically and progressively erased with the tacit approval of the most powerful country on the world, you're going to react in any way you can. There's going to come a point where you react even if you think that reaction won't help you.
And aside from that, the analogy of the 6Ft5 bully is an interesting one. Throughout human history, the story of the underdog striking out has been a central theme in mythology and historic tales. Stories used to to advocate self-belief, resistance, hope etc. No one was coming in to the school yard to help the Palestinians. That's their reality, I don't think Hamas helped either, but I can completely understanding them acting.
They have bigger things to focus on, like dog walking.
They most likely houses the military brass Israel wanted to kill.
Have you read the history books and the accounts of the Dresden bombings. Did you call the allied forces monsters as well?
I
You conveniently ignore that Iran has been the main antagonist of Israel through it's proxies ,Hamas,Hesbollah and the houtis
All of which have made it clear they want to wipe Israel out and you're calling Israel the protagonist.
