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Child Item

Stick-shift vs automatic for learner

prosaic

We have a single EV, no gear-stick/clutch.

Enter the offspring, approaching learner driver age.

Should they just forget about learning to drive with gears and stick to EV? Will it be relevent to know how to use gears in 5 to 10 years time?

I guess they would not be able to avail of a cheap 2nd hand petrol car as their 1st car purchase?

Would it be best for us to buy a 2nd car, a really cheap low-powerd small petrol car that they could learn in, use, dent, crash (minor I hope). They would have the part-use of this car for a coule of years until they're working and able to buy.

Or would we consider a really cheap 2nd BEV with 100 km range? No gears, forget that old tech, the future is only automatic.

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loyatemu

if you can afford it I'd get a cheap manual runaround for them to learn on. In 10 years time, hardly anyone will be driving manual, and it's certainly more practical to have an auto-only license now that it was 10 years ago, but it would probably still be useful for them to know how to drive a manual. Also you may not want them constantly borrowing your fancy EV.

ELM327

I have a 2011 leaf EV for this purpose.

September1

I was in the same situation with my child and we just used driving school with manual cars and then paid extra to get instructor car for the exam.

prosaic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123517095#Comment_123517095

Did they practice in family car or was it all through driving school? I imagine they need a good many hours of practice outside of instruction?
My own learning, many years ago: Provisional license, a while under parents instruction/supervision, many hours of practice, 5 or 6 intructor lessons prior to test.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123517122#Comment_123517122

Thing is now you need 12 lessons with an instructor before you can apply so most of the pre work could be covered with a couple of hours of initial practice before the instructor

cgorzy

Buy a cheap petrol and keep until the test is passed, then sell it and buy a cheap BEV if there are not other offspring hitting driving age soon after. That way they have the flexibility of having passed the test for manual and it avoids potential extra costs with the old petrol car.

RebelButtMunch

I wouldnt bother teaching them in a manual today. Never mind that in a few years the majority of cars will be automatic, if you consider the failure rate and then the time it takes to do a retest; I'd recommend just passing the test in an automatic and then worry about the stick shift later on at some stage.

n.d.os

Manual cars are slowly disappearing but it would be worth learning how to drive a car with manual gears just to have that under their belt. They might want to buy a classic car in the future and the likelihood of their first car being a manual is very high.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058414589/stick-shift-vs-automatic-for-learner

Will it be relevent to know how to use gears in 5 to 10 years time?

Very much depends on where the offspring find themselves in 5 or 10 years' time, and whether or not they're the "adventurous" type.

My niece has just done the "automatic only" lessons and test because it's the future, and knowing how much of a "city girl" she is, I can see the logic. But immediately, she's become the only one of all the cousins who cannot visit me, out in the sticks, and take advantage of the spare car - if she wants to be independently mobile, she'll have to rent an automatic herself.

Similarly, there's no point in me recommending the tiny independent self-drive safari company that did me a really great deal, because they only have old-tech manual transmission vehicles ; she'll have to go with one of the cartel companies, or get herself driven around like a regular tourist (which is probably what she'd do anyway … )

And again, there are many people and organisations I work with or have on/off dealings with. If ever a vehicle is made available to me, it's always the cheap, old, manual spare that was got for that very purpose because it was cheap and old. I would think that "I can't drive that, it'a a manual" would be a terrible handicap.

September1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123517122#Comment_123517122

You are now required to do 12 hours but we purchased extra 6 hours so total 18 hours in manual car and a lot of driving in family EVs which obviously can behave like automatics.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123517203#Comment_123517203

Worrying about the stick shift later on will be a pain if they pass in an auto because they will have to do an entire new test to get a manual license.

[Deleted User]

I would recommend getting them a small manual and doing the test in that. If they ever travel (like so many do) it is very useful to have manual driving skills - many places, especially off the beaten track, won't always have autos available, and if they are going far off the beaten track, then it will be a very long time indeed before places like outback Australia, South America, off the beaten track Asia etc. will have EV's that can traverse out of the way places. Also, if they ever want to work on a building site or doing deliveries etc. either while in college or after, then manual driving will be a must - as it will if they want to hire a van or camper any time in the next decade or so. They will also limit themselves severely in what cheap cars they can buy when starting off in life.

magicbastarder

a friend of mine learned in an automatic, and then 'upskilled' to a manual later. said she reckoned that was an easier way to learn (without having a direct comparison to starting with manual to begin with).

fewer things to have to concentrate on as you're starting out.

witchgirl26

Honestly I drive an automatic & love it but am very grateful that I learnt in a manual & my licence is that. It means there isn't any extra hassle when booking a rental car as I can drive both. I know that EV's are auto & we are heading that way but it's going to be a while before the norm is automatics over manuals. If you have the licence in manual you can always drive either but if you just get the licence in an automatic, you have constraints. Personally I think getting a small petrol car that can be used for a few years is the smarter option here.

Prospectors

Another possible reason to learn in a manual car:

As far as I know (please someone correct if I'm wrong), if they ever go on to get a truck or bus licence in the future, even if they pass the truck/bus test in an automatic vehicle (which most of them are), the fact that they have a manual car licence then covers them for manual truck/bus

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123517203#Comment_123517203

is the failure rate much different in autos?

yagan

Even for insurance a small engine auto is probably the best starter car option.

josip

Get a manual. If they can't pass their driving test in a manual they shouldn't be on the road 🙂. A 7 year old could drive a glorified bumper car/dodgem.

RebelButtMunch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123517438#Comment_123517438

Good question! I don't know but I do know from experience as a dad that not having to deal with the clutch and gears makes it easier for the kids to focus on the other things needed to pass.

RebelButtMunch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123517565#Comment_123517565

I did a quick lookup and it seems that actually pass rate in UK is higher in Manuals! I stand corrected by myself !!
Year

Manual Pass Rate

Automatic Pass Rate

2012/13	47.1%	39.6%

2013/14	47.1%	38.9%
2014/15	46.9%	39.1%
2015/16	47.0%	39.3%
2016/17	47.1%	39.8%
2017/18	46.3%	38.9%
2018/19	45.8%	38.8%
2019/20	45.9%	39.5%
2020/21	49.8%	41.5%
2021/22	48.9%	41.7%
2022/23	48.4%	42.7%

RebelButtMunch

~~Agreed!~~

MODS Please Delete; I was trying to reply to a reply, seems not to work

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123517575#Comment_123517575

Not surprising. Less capable and confident drivers are more likely to opt for the automatic. If you're able to manage gears and a clutch, you're probably also able to use indicators and look in your mirrors.

TerrieBootson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123517599#Comment_123517599

Absolutely. Best learn in a manual for many reasons. You can then drive what you want, as opposed to doing it in auto.

pooley124

Manual manual manual manual manual manual manual manual

Beefcake82

Its worth the effort to get a manual licence, specially if traveling and getting manual cars in other countries for holidays or work.

Cyrus

complete waste of time learning to drive a manual imo, we probably wont be driving at all for ourselves in our lifetime much less manually changing gear.

DoctorEdgeWild

Advantages of knowing how to drive a manual car:

Travelling - You might never know what cars are available to hire, or borrow, or in a different culture.

Emergency - The only sober one, accident, rush to hospital - Any number of situations you might have only one option.

Classics - I'm a classic car guy, I take great delight in being able to hop into any vehicle I come across without worry.

Vans/Trucks - I'm a driver, the truck I was driving today was an auto, tomorrow will be a split manual, Saturday will be whatever is loaded and available. Most people end up behind the wheel of a van at some point in their lives, even if they don't want to do so regularly.

Being adaptable and capable will always beat being restricted and limited if you can make that choice.

prawnsambo

Very much a personal choice at the moment, but manual is quickly becoming irrelevant. 74% of cars sold this year were automatics, 64% last year. Manual is effectively dead except for some niche cases which people can always get licensed for if needed.

Of my four cars, three are automatic.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123517764#Comment_123517764

There have been personal vehicles since Roman times. The horseless carriage (car) was a successor to the horse-drawn carriage which was a successor to the horse-drawn cart and the chariot.

The Great North Road between London and Edinburgh was originally a medieval coaching route.

Where is the vast network of public transport, outside of Dublin, that will render personal vehicles totally redundant in this country? It's just not happening anytime soon, if ever.

Buddy Bubs

It's not difficult to drive a manual and once you know how its easy to revert to an automatic, but not in reverse, licencing and other reasons.

There's going to be manuals around for a long time, especially in vans and trucks. Be a shame not to have the option to drive them. Even for employment reasons.

Someone learning today could be coming across manual vehicles well into their 30s, at least. Within a few lessons most of us had the hang of a manual transmission.