Not regularly for the 15s & 16s panels. They might the odd time but it’s rare. Other counties, even Fermanagh, do extra over school holidays, like Halloween week, but Cavan don’t tend to.
So no s&c midweek??
What U15 and U16 development panels are you on about? The Cavan U15 & U16 development panels do one session a week on Saturday morning.
I don't necessarily mean release them but I think for lads that have potential to be on next year's squad it's just a long time to be involved in county squads if they are going to progress to seniors etc ... Yes have them on s &c programmes or whatever works , most of them will be leaving cert too
I read somewhere recently that mayo don't allow lads into under 20s on 1st year of senior football it could be bs but it might explain why Kobe mc Donald wasn't playing this year
Not too many u15 or u16 squads doing one session a week either
So you think you should put three or four years development into lads and then just release a promising player away from the setup for a year?
Would it not be better to keep a group of lads like that together and get them to push each other on?
They haven’t exactly been flogged in development panels. U15 & U16 panels are one session a week.
Definitely a game we could have got something out of . As U said so many unforced errors and poor shot selections but they gave it a shot and remember these are mostly 16 year olds
Let's hope that a year's break from a county scene that they'll have been part of for the last 4 years between development squads etc will do them no harm before they come back as under 20s as I don't believe straight into u20s with no break benefits anyone
We were second best for a lot of that game but still could have won it. I felt there were at least 2 frees not given to us at the end, the ref bottled both.
Still, couldn't say Kerry didn't deserve it. A very odd Cavan side, playing in bursts but drifting out of games and making lots of unforced errors. Possibly the athleticism isn't as high as their skill level and that gets exposed against sides who have both.
Best of luck to the minors today as Rory posted let's hope they throw off the shackles and see where it goes
Should be some great games over the weekend
I think cork will ask real questions of Tyrone and mayo and Roscommon wil both make semis
This should tell us a lot about the quality of Cavan juvenile football because these three lads have been tearing it up for years now. As another poster said above, we struggled against Tyrone in the second half to even get the ball up the pitch but it’s a valid question : were Tyrone very good or are these lads over rated?
I think we have a good overall club game. There’s probably a bit of a gap after them but Gowna and Crosserlough would be a match for the champions from any other county IMO.
Good players don't always play well all the time. Tyrone were excellent and had us pinned in our own half for most of the second half.
It will be very interesting to see how they get on against a non-Ulster side. The lads are battle hardened at this stage where as Kerry haven't really been tested.
Hopefully we can put in a spiteful Ulster performance and frustrate Kerry.
Genuine question. How did they only score 1 point in the second half against Tyrone if they're that good?
The Cavan minors have three of the best underage forwards we’ve seen in a good few years due to all start tomorrow - Brady, Quigley & now Graham joining them.
Let’s hope that they throw off the shackles a bit and play like a team has three top forwards.
Agree with most of those two posts.
I'll just say on the Armagh manager Baconsarnie, the outlier is they got lucky with a great manager, not that they stuck with a manager. Fans might have been getting frustrated but players were always 100% behind him which is a near impossible task for 99% of managers for that space of time. If they had stuck with Grimley they'd be nowhere today so you have to know when to move on managers too and go with a better option and move fast if they exist.
It's not only development Cavan_King. There's so many small little things that add up to a general disconnect between clubs and county. Hopefully a new chairman will improve things. Yes I've heard plenty complaints of very negative experience in the development area for young players. This sours their view early of playing for Cavan and that can be infectious. Then when they do come into the senior setup, some have been treated poorly. Go back to their clubs dejected, their club form suffers for a bit afterwards too and it takes a bit of work to get their confidence back. There's also some bullying that has gone on in there with young players. Then scheduling county finals in home ground or the pulling the bit of a fast one on clubs when it comes to club fundraiser monies. Even when you go looking for money now for a club some people are very wary and suspicious of where the money is going and that it's not 100% what it says on the tin. All this adds up to a club first mentality for a lot of people. And I'm not saying Breffni development is not important or it could be a great thing, but you have to be wary at what cost.
Couldn’t agree more re lads being handed a jersey when not nearly fit. We’ve seen it countless times and that Armagh game was a prime example.
These lads are being rushed back and are never given the chance to get themselves right. Look at McVeety last year. Going to and leaving games with his foot in a boot.
Development is shocking in the county. Last year the minors had two good midfielders. Nwaneri from Blackwater & Clarke from Castlerahan. We’re crying out for good midfielders yet those two lads were just cut adrift this year with no input from county development. It’s disgraceful.
Great post, loads of things I would agree with, espcially the Armagh game under Mickey Graham.
In terms of listing Gearoid, it's not unique to Cavan to have a dummy panel or team and try to bluff opposition management to plan for something you don't intend to do. Can't see the point in it myself. Sure McGuinness did the same, and he's a genius :0
Your point about needing to remain competitive now and plan for the future is the problem. Our best players are proven and have done it (inconstantly, granted) and we definitely don't need to go back to 2012 when we started from scratch.
I still am not sure there is loads of talent just waiting there. You mention Armagh but they are the outlier here. Almost all successful intercounty teams are based on waves of successufl u20 teams. Armagh have had the luxury / luck / foresight of consistent management with 100% player buy-in but uo to last year there were years of talk among Armagh supporters that McGeeny's time was well up (a friend of mine thought he was finished in 2019 when we beat them). He was given time that no other county will ever give a manager.
Our only successes in the last 50 years have been based on success at underage level. Granted in 97 we had a good age profile but back to back Ulster titles in 2019 and 2020 was based on youth development.
No point naming lads in there who won't hang about for long or have been in there and now zero interest in IC football. A more pertinent question is why persist with playing lads in important games who cannot train and are cruelly unfit? Even GMcK last Sunday. What is he doing on the bench? If he is not fit to play he should be nowhere near the bench. If he is fit enough to be on the bench we should have saw him in action.
There's a general malaise in there and it's being going on for years and introducing young lads into that will turn most of them off. The Armagh championship game in Breffni couple of years ago is one that particularly burns in my mind. We started, off the top of my head, 7 or 8 half fit/injured players with limited game time from a good league campaign. Haven't seen head nor tail of some of the actual league performers since and why would I. Nothing says I think you're only a c**t more to a footballer than using them when desperate and dropping them for the first half fit player becomes available. And that's not an isolated incident, that's the culture that's in there for years now. If people think I'm deluded or off my head, I don't really care and have zero interest in debating. I know what I've seen with my own eyes and I've half lost interest in following Cavan TBH.
So on who's available to play for Cavan in future? We'll see. In fairness to management we are lacking a couple good ball winning midfielders who can also track back. That's difficult to solve but playing lads with hard running in the legs is a must for everywhere else and there's no real excuses for not having that. Father time will soon force the hand anyway on the squad building front. And on that I think we should move away from anyone associated with the setup of the last 6 or 7 years. So probably an outside man. Difficult task because it takes a few years to build a proper squad while also getting respectable results in the short term. And getting players wanting to be part of a Cavan setup and prepared to fight hard for a jersey.
Who are the players knocking about with the right age profile who should be in there? Genuine question.
Our clubs produce plenty good young players every year. For sure it would be nice to see them managed better (for the sake of the lads themselves) at that particular age group for that year, but for the bigger picture of senior IC team's future, I wouldn't be putting too much weight on underage success. Manage properly what you have. Hire a proper IC management team, treat players properly and build a squad on how lads are performing, not on what they did or didn't do at underage years ago.
Cavan's record at underage is just as good as Armagh's, if not better last decade and more. We were at a similar level 6 or 7 years ago in senior but they have built a terrific squad by little improvements year on year. It's an incredibly hard team to beat (even when they were more limited before their AI success) because above all else their work rate is off the scale. And it needs to be because they'll not hold on to the jersey if it's not.
I'll agree we've retained a lot of what were regarded as the best players of the last decade but that's not necessarily a positive. Why wouldn't they hang around when they were guaranteed playing every game. It's buy in from fresh blood is the problem, and what's needed in a healthy squad. And part of the reason they don't hang around is because they don't see it as a level playing field. And I know some will say there's a chasm in quality but that's overstated. If you look at club football there's an even enough spread of quality. And without coming across as too glib or harsh, we had a lot of injuries and fresh faces a few years ago but got promoted to Division 2 regardless. Those lads were dropped like a hot snot as soon as the lads who brought us to Division 4 became available again. And I'm not saying they're not quality players and good servants. They have given us plenty over the years but they are incredibly inconsistent too. Any maybe that's a symptom of not having to worry over the security of their jerseys.
I was watching McGuinness during that first half and the more it went on the angrier he was getting. He was still clever enough to know that getting on to an official was pointless and that having a go at a Cavan player would only lead to a melee. Instead he got the message through to his team that they where in for a roasting at half time that would have been mild compared to the one they got after the Tyrone game. It was the real turning point in the game. Got the Donegal crowd going as well as the team where so many of them straight afterwards were making lung bursting sprints to finish off that goal. After that I imagine his half time talk wasn`t much more than use your link men and your pace.
I don`t get what all the doom and gloom is here, yer on two points like everyone else.
if Mayo beat Donegal and ye beat Tyrone you would top the group. Even if Donegal win ye would take the second spot. I was at the Donegal v Tyrone game and Tyrone were no great shakes. Donegal were listless on the day and made them look good. They were also poor losing in their own back yard to Mayo. If ye can win midfield, or break even with them then ye have every chance of beating them.
Brewster is only a skip and jump up the road on a Sunday evening, no excuse for real Cavan supporters not to be there.
Speaking to a Donegal man, who attends all their games, his opinion is that Donegal didn’t perform until after the McGuinness had his spat along the sideline. He was very disappointed with them first half. You could argue Cavan didn’t allow them to play but he feels they were flat until the crowd and McGuinness raised them.
He was also surprised by at least one of the Cavan subs. He felt Galligan has too much loyalty to his former playing colleagues and isn’t cutting them loose from the panel as he should. That was the alleged reason I had heard a member of management left last year - they felt new blood was needed into the panel.
I think Donegal will win, albeit not at a canter. There's too much at stake for them not to win, and McGuinness would prefer to knock Mayo out now. Same reason I think Armagh will look to finish off Galway. Mayo really struggled to break us down, cannot see their forwards causing Donegal many problems.
Eternal optimist that I am, I think we might push Tyrone close. Don't ask me why! Not based on logic or reasoning…
Was talking to someone yesterday and after the humiliation of Sunday and the prospect of yet another trimming from Tyrone, he said there's no way he was heading to Brewster. He laughed when I said I would tip down from Dublin but my response was "we have to beat them sometime, imagine if it was the game I didn't go to? After all those years?"
It's the hope that kills 😀
My prediction is that Mayo will get at least a point if not 2 against Donegal in Hyde Park. Donegal being hyped up something serious and Mayo being talked down. There isnt a lot between the teams and Mayo need to win more than Donegal. Then that would leave us needing something against Tyrone and all past evidence says that we will get nothing there.
I'm not sure about the player buy in bit. A few lads apparently had an issue around lack of game time in challenges, walked and then calmed down and are back. Buy-in can be judged over the last decade. Look at our very best players in that time period- even those who stepped away came back for the love of playing for the county (Clarke, Moynagh, McVeety). Our player retention speaks to the commitment that players have made to playing county level.
Re: management. I don't know the ins and outs but when McGleenan got the job I don't think there was a queue of top managers looking for an interview. Someone can go through the recent recruitment and whilst Ray getting the job was a surprise, again I don't think it was a case of "big names" looking for the role. I always will have a preference for someone from the county managing the side as it will always mean more.
The bigger issue for me is the standard of underage teams over the last ten years. We've fallen off a cliff and you cannot expect us to do much at senior level without that foundation. Not only that, but judging by the annual convention we don't even seem to have a plan to address this. My major fear is a little bit of success at minor level will distract from the fact that the core of our panel are our successful u21 teams and since then……
Plenty of home truths in those posts.
Disappointing result if not entirely shocking. We rely on luck for big results, if it goes against us we drop the heads. Unfortunately it's where we're at, you get out of football exactly what you put into it. Not having a go at the players or management. If you're given the job you're going to take it. If you're given the jersey you're going to play. I'd be more critical of county board and lack of ambition or accountability last few years. We dropped to Division 4 without as much as a boo to management. My worry when Ray took the job was he'd have it for as long as he wants regardless of results. In fairness to him he has done better than I expected but there are things that don't fill me with confidence either.
I don't think player buy-in is good enough. Too many lads need to be begged to come in. Playing half fit players ahead of others bursting a gut. That's only going to piss lads off in the long run, they're not stupid. You have to have a 100% professional setup and attitude at this level. County squad is not a halfway house. If you don't have a manager to inspire players and raise their expectations from day one and demand 100% commitment, you're on very loose footing. Eventually you're going to meet a real team where hard running, energy and work appetite is needed everywhere. If you're short in only a few areas you'll be handed your ass.
Having said all that I don't know who is around to do better. Only if a messiah for us does actually exist they'll not be approached by this board. Current management have at least another game this year. We should see an improvement against Tyrone but ultimately fall short of victory. Then if Mayo lose possibly we get a nice draw. We'll dust ourselves down and continue as we are for next year. Hopefully we don't turn off too many players and fans in the process.
@Cavan_King this was supposed to be a quote of your earlier review but for some reason my boards account is acting up
Spot on in all of that. McGuinness is a dose, but a very clever one. He knew they were in a battle and the cute hooer turned a minor issue into a war cry. I was the far side so I couldn't see it but Hannon reckoned he was almost about to have a go at the officials but realised he can't do that anymore, so engineered a row to avoid a free and in doing so got the crowd up. In fairness the Donegal fans responded.
He had his players ready to run through us, put the foot to the throat and they relished it. Sadly when we kicked some awful wides right at the start, our heads dropped. It's far easier to make a 40 metre lung-busting run when you're 7 or 8 points up, but it's hard to do that when you're 14 or 15 points down. Our heads had completely gone for the last 10 minnutes, and if that was an underage game you'd be asking for mercy :)
Given the intensity of the game and the amount of running Donegal had in them, what was the point in bringing James Smith on for?
I don't think we had anyone who could match him (we never have and most teams don't) but the Gunner was chasing shadows against Murphy. Might have made sense to stick Faulkner on him after about 15 minutes. O'Donnelll was amazing for them, cut us open at will.
@hatefulrory this was supposed to be a quote reply but my boards account is acting up!
100% agree. When the game was well in the mix, there were 3 big calls that could have had a huge impact. Blatant black cards ignored. One on Cian Reilly led to a Donegal score that instigated the dust up. Shocking call. Everyone will say "we lost by 19 points, that doesn't matter) but the game was effectively lost in a 2 minute window I feel. Donegal are genuine All Ireland contenders, we are a top 14 team. Harsh reality, but if we were ever going to get close we needed everything to go our way and for Donegal to have an off day.
Murphy is one of the most talented footballers I've seen, but he has a nasty streak in him (not saying that's a bad thing) but he also gets away with murder. He might as well ref games himself. The throw ball with Evan Crowe was hilarious- the roar Murphy let out when the ball threw in as he launched himself to the ground, yet the referee bought it.
While their attack rightly is getting plaudits, Donegal's defence was superb in the second half. They knew who our danger men were for 2 pointers and as soon as Oisin Kiernan, Paddy Lynch or McVeety got the ball they swarmed them.
@mylestheslasher
I'm not going to make an excuse for it, but I don't think that was as bad as say the Dubs last year or Mayo in Castlebar last summer. The final scoreline might say different but hear me out. We were well in the game and coming into half time I was pretty happy. Then we get turned over for a point and still at 4 points down I was more than hopeful that we could compete. The goal totally knocked the stuffing out of us.
You're now up against (in my opinion) the best running side in the country. What do you do? If you don't press up and have a cut you're going to lose by 10 and by pushing up we left acres of space to run into. Naive? Possibly.
Once the second goal went in, I do think we absolutely fell apart. We looked like a kids team that just loses the will to be there when the chips are down, that is concerning.
I am not saying I left Breffni with a spring in my step but after i cooled down a bit it wasn't the "worst ever" (despite the scoreline). Shows that against a really top team you cannot switch off for a second, and that last 2 mins of the first half mean the game was over.
I think both sides got one each (Murphy and McVeety)
Yes ref made some poor calls. We were 3 down and conceded 1-1 in brainless scores coming up to half time - nothing to do with ability or ref. Then at start of 2nd half we missed 4/5 very score able chances, some shockingly poor, and then we basically lay down when Donegal upped it. Donegal lost to Tyrone last week, Langan and Murphy got 15/20 points. They ain't that good in my opinion. I'm tired of making excuses. Our lack of any pre rehearsed kickouts is an embarrassment at this stage. We were bet by 19 points ffs, zero excuses for that.
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