You've undermined the salient points against the DRS scheme by being unable to understand what a deposit is and point blank refusing to accept that you are wrong. Deposits would not count towards inflation on the price of a good, for example.
It's quite funny (especially proclaiming victory as this obtuseness will stick with you on other topics) as other posters trying to actually critique DRS are being drowned out by 50% of the comments being about explaining what a deposit is over and over (particularly for Odyssey who's usually level headed about these things :)).
You should be able to show DRS related price increases at this point, the deposit is still the same as it was at launch, they are still being (mostly, at least in big stores) shown independent of price and prices aren't factoring in DRS.
The areas to argue on are accessibility of the machines (no worse than other countries) reliability of machines (this is an ongoing issue) and profits of the DRS company due to lack of returns (which means % of non returns can be calculated).
Polish cans being sold by take aways would be another.
Anecdotally, at an event recently, all plastic bottles were being collected due to DRS rather than being dumped into the general waste bags for landfill. Question is whether this behavioural change outweighs those who don't return them for whatever reason (or just feeds the company profits by dumping them in the green bin).
Yes but its the Australian scheme where you can drop off big bags of containers to bulk sorting depots with a barcode tag and wait for the cash to hit your bank account. Here you have to do the 1 container at a time RVM olympics and hope it doesn't eat your voucher, avoid queues and you must go in-store to claim your money. We do things our own way here in the gombeen isle.
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/world-news/i-bought-house-using-money-31716750
One mans rubbish…
You’d likely increase the uptake by using the excess to fund some bulk machines.
IIRC it was stated that the required facility to recycle all the RVM plastic wasn't available in Ireland.
I thought the plan was to build one in Limerick and until that was done the only option was export.
Of course export is not ideal.
If the folks in Monaghan have the answer it should be followed up on.
It will be a good test to the whole scheme if the tens of millions of unclaimed deposits Return are sitting on are used to actually increase recycling capacity in the country or wasted away as a slush fund and jobs for de boys and gombeenery.
Carthy caught the Tainaste on the hop. He could have submitted a question in writing to the Minister. But I expect he will follow up to see what happens. By coincidence the matter of Questions is in the news, with Sinn Fein being among those complaining that they are not getting proper answers. I heard on the radio today, that the number of questions has increased a lot in recent years, as have FOI request, 50,000 questions a year. And a lot of manpower and resources have to be devoted to getting the answers for the politicians. Carthy is one of those fond of bombarding them with questions.
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2025-05-22/35/#spk_258
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/questions/?member=%2Fie%2Foireachtas%2Fmember%2Fid%2FMatt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08
Looking at the Shabra facility online, it does not give the appearance of being big enough to do what Carthy claims.
So apparently 17,000 tonnes of plastic bottles have been collected under the scheme but only 3,400 tonnes of that has been recycled in Ireland despite there being capacity for a company in Ireland to recycle the material.
Yes 2.2c per container collected.
Where are you reading that "many have recouped their costs already" ?
It has been clear from the start retailers are paid to collect them and many have recouped their costs already. It's like 2cent a can they get.
Do you really think retailers are willing to wait to maybe eventually recoup the upfront costs of this scheme? Not a chance. We're paying for it.
So in your world, 1.15 is the same as 1.00.
Fair enough.
Sure, show us how you "proved" the reason for price increase previous to DRS? Doesn't it actually make it more likelier further price increases are due to DRS and not due to previously adjusted for input cost increases?
Do you have access to internal company meeting notes where such proof is obtainable, and you can provide a breakdown of what price increase was actually down to what cause?
As opposed to any claims made in press releases?
Nope, of course you don't.
It is a social media discussion forum. The observable effective price increases coincidental with the scheme being launched, especially multi-packs and the disappearance of cheaper imported items, are sufficient proof for the purposes of this discussion.
I have also outlined different additional costs incurred by producers in the scheme. Costs which are not recoupable under the deposit scheme and which need to be recouped from consumers ultimately.
Speaking of Germany I saw an unusual encounter at an RVM today.
I was putting my usual €2 worth in the machine when a German man approached a lady waiting behind me.
He had a two litre water bottle which he held out to her saying "is this for this ?". Yes she said and he handed it to her.
As he left he said " I won't be back here".
I understand you completely like I understand flat earthers. Remove sense and then intentionally act stupid about logic
Show any price increases that you can prove were caused by DRS.
That makes no sense. Because there were previous price increases for reasons X, that means there can never be a different reason for price increases in the future?
Completely illogical.
Also, you offered no response to the other points, such as recouping costs and fees associated with the scheme. The disappearance of cheaper imported products. So all the points stand.
If you genuinely think that the scheme has not resulted in an increased price for consumers, I dont know what to say.
I think you know very well the price has increased, but as a staunch defender of the scheme, you gloss over the fact as it doesnt suit the narrarive.
There is a cost to recycling and managing the DRS scheme and the consumer is paying for it, whether they return their bottles or not.
What these schemes do is create a false market by confiscating a product.
In this instance the container.
It's the perfect scam, setup a company without actually producing anything, but you steal someone else's product, then you charge for it.
It's genius really.
Obviously the money they earn from selling on the product should be passed back to the consumer.
But that is about as likely as this scam making any difference to less plastic use.
None of the price increases were caused by DRS. There were even bigger increases in the years before DRS.
It won't be the last time.
I don't need many of them but using a few 500ml plastic bottles attached to drip feeders for pot plants etc That involves 'sacrificing' a few deposits.
Some people may have other purposes for the bottles or cans, whether hobby related or what not.
Then there's the obstacles to reclaiming the deposit in certain locations \ scenarios such as travelling, at concerts, people who get home deliveries.
There's also been price increases on certain products, reduction in multi-pack sizes, some imported cheaper products disappearing from shelves.
So between the deposit and the scheme itself, it represents an effective price increase - though how much of a price increase depends on the products purchases, scenarios above etc
And the scheme is not ultimately cost neutral for producers. They have to pay product registration fees, they have to cover admin time for dealing with scheme bureaucracy. They had to re-label products, especially multi-packs. All these costs will be passed onto consumers.
One last time..
Before DRS: 1 Euro = Can/Bottle plus contents.
After DRS, 1 Euro = contents only.
Enough people on here understand this is a price increase. So we can leave it there.
Only an idiot would conclude that. The cost didn't go up a deposit was added and gets returned so cost is still 1euro you get 1.15-0.15=1=1 the cost before DRS.
Nobody is this stupid to not understand "cost", "deposit" and simple maths so I am done with you
Perhaps some folks do. Or perhaps they want to recycle it themselves for profit.
Either way, its up to them what they do with it. They paid for it.
You know you've lost the argument Rocket when your only comeback is "well, there is no good reason for wanting to keep the thing that you paid for, so we should just forget about the value of it so."
Ultimate strawman argument and does not address the very real fact that the plastic container, does and always did, have monetary value.
You've forgotten that you no longer have the can Blanch.
The can has a value of 15c. That value now belongs to DRS, not you.
So in effect, youve paid a euro for the lemonade, when a euro used to pay for the lemonade AND the can.
Before DRS, 1 euro was the cost of the bottle plus the water.
Do you understand this?
After DRS, 1.15 is the cost of the bottle plus the water.
1.15 > 1.00.
Do you understand that 1.15 is greater than 1.00?
If so, you can conclude that the product price (bottle + water) has increased by 15%, as a result of DRS.
Wrong!
Can plus lemonade was 1 euro.
Can plus lemonade plus deposit and then minus deposit is still 1 euro.
They just want to keep all of their bottles and cans for some reason and are annoyed that they can't continue the construction of their Evian Eiffel Tower without having to sacrifice the deposit.
