Wrong!
Can plus lemonade was 1 euro.
It is now 1.15.
The price of cans went up by the value of the deposit when DRS was introduced.
If the original product price had been maintained, DRS would be perfectly fair.
No, its the price of the contents that have increased, not the price of the can. Thats the slight of hand with the scheme whch some people are not seeing.
The increase is that you now pay 1 euro for the lemonade, not 85c any longer.
The price of the can itself remains the same, at 15c.
Which means everyone pays for DRS, whether you return the can or not.
That was my original point.
The increase is not due to DRS. Everything has increased.Maybe you haven't noticed this!
What do you mean that the price of the can remains the same? We were never told of the price of the can. It has always been included in the cost we paid for the product.
Odd.
I can't compete with that sort of magic. But I did find a trick to make the scheme cost neutral for me, so I am happy with that. The magic word is Sleight.
If a product in the DRS scheme retained the same price it had on the day before DRS was introduced, that's perfectly fair.
If the product price increased by the value of the deposit scheme, that's a price increase.
The 15c is the value the scheme is saying the container is worth. If its the wrong value, you had better let DRS know.
The scheme is only cost neutral, if the product price remains unchanged by the introduction of DRS.
The machines will tolerate up to 100 grams weight. So if you left some of the liquid costing 85c in the can, how would that affect your calculation of the cost.
Price remains unchanged, you're just being obtuse at this point.
Even children understand the concept of a deposit.
???
We are talking about the price of the liquid on purchase.
Whether you drink it, pour it down the sink, use it for a rain dance or tip it all back into the DRS machine every sunday is irrelevant.
It still cost you more to purchase it than it did before DRS.
Did prices remain the same when DRS came in?
You are saying that a bottle of water the day before DRS came in was 1 euro, stayed at 1 euro under DRS, including the cost of the deposit?
What is the effect of returning the empty can to a machine and getting 15c refund. Does that have any impact on the overall cost?
Interesting
What about boxes with mixed bottles of wine?
Cardboard boxes in your recycling bin, glass bottles in bottle bank.
Re-turn only takes plastic bottles and alu or steel drinks cans.
https://re-turn.ie/
Cheers 🙂
returning the can means you get 15c back, but no can.
The cost of the lemonade itself has still increased in price.
It's unreal how this is still going on.
Look - using the example of a can of drink that costs €1:
Prior to DRS - you paid €1, enjoyed your drink, and put the empty can into your recycle bin. Net cost to you was €1, and you didn't keep the can.
With DRS - you pay €1 for the drink, additional 15c deposit on the can, enjoy your drink, return the can, and get your 15c back. Net cost to you is €1, and you don't have a can to keep.
You may feel it's a hassle to have to return the can, but there's no price increase involved there. It's still costing the same to enjoy a drink and end up in the same position of not keeping the can to show for it.
Only way you'd actually be out of pocket is if you were in the habit of keeping and hoarding all your cans. Maybe to use them to make an extra-thick tinfoil hat or something.
Before DRS, if i pay my euro for a bottle of water, i can put it in recycling OR I keep the bottle.
I might fill that bottle again for a trip out, give it to the kids for soccer etc, whatever. Its up to me. Its my bottle and i paid for it.
After DRS, if I decide to keep the bottle, it costs me 1.15 to do so.
A 15% price increase.
If i put the bottle in home recycling, its also cost me 1.15.
Also a 15% price increase.
If i return the bottle to DRS, I have the hassle of having to return it, I also have no bottle to keep and the whole experience still cost me 1 euro: The same amount it used to cost me to keep the bottle AND not have to trek down to the supermarket to return anything!
Your analogy would be fair, if the 15c was incorporated into the ORIGINAL 1 euro price.
If the bottle is worth 15c after DRS. It was worth 15c before DRS.
If the bottle STILL costs 1 euro in the shop after DRS and if, when I return it to the DRS machine, I get my 15c back, all is fair.
This means the water still only cost me 85c. The same as it did before DRS.
Anything else is a price increase. Pure and simple.
This is what AI says when asked whether schemes are cost neutral. It gives a detailed explanation, excerpts below. Good luck with trying any funny mathematics against their mighty brain.
AI Overview "Yes, Deposit Return Schemes (DRS) are designed to be cost-neutral for all involved parties, including producers, retailers, and consumers. This is achieved through a combination of mechanisms: "
Yes, Deposit Return Schemes (DRS) are designed to be cost-neutral for all involved parties, including producers, retailers, and consumers. This is achieved through a combination of mechanisms: "
"In essence, the deposit fee is a refundable cost that is returned to the consumer, while retailers are compensated for their involvement through handling fees, making the scheme cost-neutral for all."
Thats a high level summary which assumes there is no product price increase after DRS.
When AI can explain how 1.15 is not a larger number than 1.00, please share the deets.
"Designed to be cost neutral."
What you claimed: "Schemes are cost neutral."
No need for "funny mathematics" or whatever that drivel is supposed to mean, we can spot a bait and switch a mile off. Misrepresenting AI now, a new low.
How are producers compensated for their costs in the scheme such as re-labelling?
Northern Ireland Business Info also say it is cost neutral.
https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/content/republic-ireland-deposit-return-scheme
Obligations for retailers include:
The deposit fee is passed through the supply chain (consumer, retailer, distributor, producer) and is cost-neutral to all involved.
AI must be the new soda water.
Heres what AI says about you:
🤣
Even I can concede that's not an accurate summary of your contributions here. Give over with the AI spam posts.
When your argument has reached the nadir of "Look AI says so", you've well and truly lost.
You seem strangely determined to hold on to your empty bottles and cans.
That in itself goes against what DRS is designed to help achieve - i.e., hitting the EU target for separate collection for recycling. If everybody held on to those containers in the way you seem to like doing, we'd never manage that.
AI. Garbage in, garbage out. It is being trained on blurb pieces, whose BS it just regurgitates.
Or, we could leave the price of the bottle at 1 euro. The same price it was before DRS.
Recycle it at home and dont get your 15c back.
Recycle it at DRS and get your 15c back.
Wouldn't that be a good thing.
Why is it that you folks advocating for DRS are not happy with the price staying as it was?
That's the real question.
I hope you don't really think that is a real question because a child could explain it to you. Basically you want them to reduce the price of the content and them to bare the cost of recycling
The real test is in my house it is cost neutral. I can explain what is involved if anyone wants to know.
I'd say the real question is how do you still not understand the concept of a deposit?
they do but they're working off the logic that it you want to keep the can/bottle it costs 15 cent now while before it was included in the price/free
I have to say at this stage the scheme seems to be working better than I thought it would. It's not perfect, but I think it's actually easier to use than the German one, which can get really annoying about store own-brand bottles/cans having to go back to that store etc.
They could definitely do with getting some of the bulk machines rolled out in particularly busy locations i.e. some of the suburban supermarkets.
