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The split season

[Deleted User]

To me this has worked brilliantly. After around 25 years of serious fixture issues, clubs finally got certainty about their championships, a huge thing for everyone involved. Clare were in the All Ireland final this year, but by the end of the first week in September three rounds of club championship will have been played just as autumn begins. There were no postponements or uncertainty due to the county team.

As far as I can see it has been an unqualified success, the best piece of administration I can ever remember in the GAA. Yet you still have an awful lot of media whinging about it.

I'm not generally given to conspiracy theories, but I really do wonder if the commentariat have found their season of relevance dramatically shortened, and as such are negative towards it.

Quite honestly, there are far more articles that are negative in tone compared to those that acknowledge the huge benefits to clubs that have accrued from the split season.

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Deskjockey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123411300#Comment_123411300

You've mentioned the concerts about three times on this page. They are not your cup of tea obviously and you would like all players to be available for every single match but the reality is these young men and women - who give up a lot of time to play in these matches you love to attend-, they do actually want to go and hang out in a field in Laois every so often and have the crack and be young, so there does need to be a reasonable approach to scheduling matches with a view that sometimes young people have something better to do.

Krazy gang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123425531#Comment_123425531

Ah look I've no problem with players going to concerts or holidays or whatever they want. It's that some commentators seem to think they are more important than the traditions the gaa have built up over a century. To just discard them is something that majority of gaa people don't agree with.

I'm not calling for a return to September all irelands. Mid August would be a fair compromise imo. Most people agree July is too early.

I actually attend far more club matches than inter County but that doesn't mean I can't see the big picture that the all ireland championships are the biggest show in all of Irish sports. If a county who ate not used to success gets on a run that's what attracts kids to the game, down to the pitch and the cúl camps

The_Kew_Tour

Even if they pushed it out 3 or 4 weeks would do. The club players I know don't seem have any issue with it either.

I appreciate September was too long but mid August is nice compromise and I think would work for most

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123428623#Comment_123428623

And sur if we push it out a few weeks why not push it out further. The issue is the structure of the championship not the time alotted

[Deleted User]

I'm personally for the split season, but it's not working in some counties. Many still aren't starting their championships till August even though the county could be out of the All-Ireland in June. One of the reasons for this is that certain inter-county players head off to America on "holidays" (pay for play) once their county is out, so the whole championship is held up as a consequence. Rule 9.2.e of the GAA codes book where a player can't play for their club in Ireland for 60 days after being registered to play in the USA etc needs to go to 90 or 120 or even 180 days. Would end this practice at a stroke IMO.

https://online.fliphtml5.com/fhqhq/lpcm/#p=15

theoneeyedman

Lots of students go on J1 visas too, and are away for the summer. Isn't it 90 day sanction to go to north America? But petty to cut off that avenue to youngsters IMHO.

Robson99

Problem with extending the All Ireland Series by another say 3 / 4 weeks is that it really impacts on dual club players. In a lot of counties it's football one weekend hurling next so no space to speed up County club championship.

The club scene should get preference, not the County

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123436440#Comment_123436440

Not the armchair fans you mean...

Robson99

Yup

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123432464#Comment_123432464

I'm guessing you've never sat on or been closely associated with a County CCC (i.e. fixtures committee)?

Main reason a club championship might not start until August even if the county side is knocked out in June is because by and large, they're scheduled according to when the county champions are due to enter provincial club championship action.

In Leinster this year, for example, first round of the Senior Football Club Championship will be on the weekend of November 1st/2nd. Now let's say your club championship is based on groups of four (i.e. three group games per team), followed by quarter-finals, semi-finals, and final. You want to play your county final two weeks before the Leinster Championship match, and space all other games out an even two weeks apart. So, here's how it would go:

Leinster 1st Round: November 1st/2nd
County Final: October 18th/19th
County semi-finals: October 4th/5th
County quarter-finals: September 20th/21st
Round 3 group game: September 6th/7th
Round 2 group game: August 23rd/24th
Round 1 group game: August 9th/10th

Why would you rush to start your club championship in late June or early July, instead of allowing club players the option of a holiday during those months, like "normal" people get to do?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123439568#Comment_123439568

Also saying "sure the county is out early so let's start the championship" defeats the whole purpose of having the split season.

The point is to give club players a set fixture list so changing it based on the county team goes against that.

Butson

How about swapping the season around?

Club runs from Feb to May. Month of June off. Inter county runs from July to October.

Proper winter break for all.

Krazy gang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123439588#Comment_123439588

All clubs are training since January and playing those meaningless all county league games. Hardly a big issue to start a few weeks earlier if their inter County team happens to be out.

I happened to be at one of these all county league matches yesterday against a club who our club dislikes and has history against. Yet there was no bite or aggression to the game at all. Challenge match in all but name. My point being club players would much prefer to start their championship in April / may, play 2 games possibly like was b4 the split season. This avoid the situation now where clubs could be playing 10/12 weeks in a row and injuries fatigue etc are inevitable

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123440313#Comment_123440313

It is a massive problem if club players knowing that month is free book their holidays in that time only to have their lives interrupted because the county team were knocked out.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123440313#Comment_123440313

Club players in your place must be very different to the ones in mine. There's no appetite whatsoever here to go back to how we used to have to gear up to play four club championship matches (two hurling, two football) around April and then not know when the next one would be - could be June, could more likely be July, or sometimes could be August, depending on how the county team fared.

If the county team was playing next Sunday, the club player would be thinking: "If they lose, we could have a championship match the following week. If they win, we won't have one for at least three or four weeks". The current system does away with all that uncertainty.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123439598#Comment_123439598

And are you going to run the provincial and All-Ireland club championships in that window of February to May? If not, when are you going to run them?

Either way, you'd have the majority of club players out of their championships by April, and nothing substantial to look forward to later in the year. Yes, you could continue to run secondary club competitions (where clubs play without their county players) during the inter-county season later in the year, but who's going to take those competitions any way seriously when the main club action for the year - i.e. the club championships - is already over?

County Leagues like we have in Wexford at this time of year are not exactly ideal and brimming over with competitiveness, but at least the clubs can treat them as warm-ups for the championships to follow, and players can use those games as opportunities to stake a claim for a place on the championship team. Reverse the order in which you run things, and all that changes.

Krazy gang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123440656#Comment_123440656

The 2 or 3 club games after the league would be in the calendar like b4 the split season. Would not be uncertainty about it.

I see you say you're from wexford. With nearly evrty club being dual, just playing week on week as a means of getting games played is like a box ticking exercise. No rest weeks, build up to games etc.

Anyway it is what it is so we'll just have to go along with it. I'll still enjoy the club championships when they come along but If I was still a player now I don't think I would enjoy the condensed nature of it.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123440958#Comment_123440958

Our club championship structure in Wexford is a different issue from the club calendar.

We operate on a basis of two groups of six in each code and at each grade. So yes, it means clubs are in action for a minimum of 10 weeks in a row if they're a dual (which about 90% of them are). And it could be up to 17 weeks in a row if they get a run to a final in both codes.

But here's the thing. The clubs - guided by their players - consistently and overwhelmingly vote that system back in, year after year. Any motions to move to an alternative system - e.g. four groups of three, or three groups of four - never receive any significant level of support.

Krazy gang

I've just seen the all ireland u20 football final is on next Wednesday evening at 7 30 pm!! Had to look carefully and think am I going mad or what?! is this what the split season is for? To run everything off just like that and hide away our highest profile games.

A Wednesday evening with players doing exams, studying for the leaving, parents working. What planet are the bigwigs in croke park on at all? How do they expect families with young kids to attend when they won't be home till 11 pm?

Whoever in croke park is in charge of promotion and marketing the games, they are doing a horrible job. A competent 5th class student with a reasonable level of intelligence would have more cop on and common sense! Rant over!!

[Deleted User]

I still think the positives around the split season, certainty and protection of the club fixtures, is being minimised. Funnily enough I think it's the endorsement of the GPA that means a return to the old ways is very unlikely.

Of course the ideal thing is for club and county fixtures to go ahead in tandem, but there isn't a hope of that happening anywhere again.

Tommybojangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123474964#Comment_123474964

Dunno if I'm in a big minority here but I've enjyed the switchign of u20 to midweek. Makes the fixtures really standalone and stand out fromt he other games, I actually think it's been a great creative way around how busy the schedule is and still allows players to play senior. The last couple of eyars are the first time in ages I've made every Galway u20 game and still been able to make senior games and play club

Uncle Pierre

I've no issue in general with playing the U20 matches midweek, but in each of the past few years, the All-Ireland Final was still played on a Saturday.

Wonder if playing on a Wednesday night this year is due to the 60-hour rule? Have to admit I'm not familiar with the Louth & Tyrone U20 squads. Do either or both of them include players who could also be playing for the senior sides at the weekends?

slegs

I actually think the split season is very good. Hurling championship format is spot on. The round robin matches week after week is a great format. Problem is the mess that is the football championship and isn't that changing next year?

I think people are just getting used to the I/C season being over in July when it used to go to end Sep and this is an adjustment alright.

In club where I am in Kildare the league football format is highly competitive from beginning March to end June with 4 divisions with 12 teams in Div 1,2,3. All games are very well attended and there is a good bit of bite to the games. It builds up very nicely to the start of the championship in mid August which is great format in Kildare with first game being a winners/losers group qualifier followed by a 4 team group with 3 teams from winners group progressing and 2 from losers groups to a knockout stage - prelim quarters, quarters and so on. Losers group bottom teams contest relegation final.

I can see the interest has grown hugely in club football since the fixed calendar came in with split season. Everyone knows when they are on. Players can plan their year etc.

I dont think there is much they can do to free up time really, bar maybe getting rid of I/C league and replacing with provincials and going full open draw for All Ireland series. Dont see that happening though.

Krazy gang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123475058#Comment_123475058

Nothing wrong with playing regular round Robin games midweek but an all Ireland final on a Wednesday evening is a disgrace and demeans the prestige of the competition. Why couldn't it have been played as the curtain raiser for one of the all ireland senior championship matches at the weekend?

Krazy gang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123475149#Comment_123475149

Think both have 1 or 2 panelists but no starters.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123475637#Comment_123475637

U20 is now ran as a development grade rather than a high profile competitive grade. For better or worse, that's the way with it and U17 now. In fairness, the GAA are paying for it in gate receipts as these were popular grades back in the day, but that's the direction they have chosen. Hardly fits into the Grab All Association as commonly expounded to us, but midweek games etc. allow for more games for the lads which is what it's really about

Krazy gang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123477330#Comment_123477330

It's shocking the way the gaa are downgrading these competitions. What were once prestigious games with the all ireland finals on a Sunday afternoon before maybe 30 thousand are just shoehorned into whatever slot is convenient to get them out of the way.

No consideration for fans. They think minors will be traumatised by playing b4 a senior match when anyone with a brain would tell them it's the opposite.

People give out about the FAI but the gaa are not far behind in incompetence and stupidity.

theoneeyedman

I guess the question is, what Sunday's are available to play these games?

I too miss going to a few underage games every year, but nowadays 17 year old lads have several chances through the round Robin games to play for their county, learn the ropes, and peak for the knock out games. Before, minor lads apjld train for months, maybe play a first round championship game, get knocked out and that's it. Same with U20/21. It's better for players, better for their development, and fans, especially armchair fans, lose out a bit.

How many Sundays are available to play these games? We haven't enough weekends to fit in the Senior football and hurling championships, let alone go back to the old minor systems. Most of these lads are now able to play woth their clubs more then a few years ago, when talented kids were training with county panels for months and playing no games at all.

System is not perfect, but I think it's still better then before. We can't be afraid of change and keep harking back to the good old days.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123410033#Comment_123410033

There are probably people drinking the cool-aid who think the split season is a total disaster.

Of course it has been a huge success, because it has given certainty to clubs after a generation of fixtures chaos. For at least 20 years that was the biggest issue facing the GAA and incredibly, it was solved overnight. It is the best structural move the GAA made in at least a generation, maybe ever.

Some people don't realise it, but the club is everything in the GAA. Intercounty competitions are an occasional treat, while the club is the breakfast and dinner.

Another mad thing about the split season criticism is that intercounty hurling has thrived. Heaps of games in the Munster championship are selling out, whereas often in the past it was just the final. Over 30,000 people went to Limerick last Sunday for a meaningless game.

Intercounty teams have more championship matches than ever before, yet people are complaining that they are off for too long.

It's a bit rich to have journalists complaining about the split season now given the paucity of coverage about the fixtures issue which went on for decades.

I think the level of debate on the split season reflects a wider societal failure to analyse issues properly and look at things logically. People looking for later All Irelands rarely get asked about club fixtures or how longer breaks between matches is going to increase interest. If a former intercounty player comes out with a half thought out opinion about September All Ireland that would be fine in his local pub, it'll probably get reported in the national media.

randd1

Whenever I hear anyone harp on about the split season, my immediate thought is that they only care for the senior inter-county scene and simply don't give a damn about the clubs.

What's even more impressive is that not one of them complaining about the split season has actually put forward anything resembling a working alternative that means the club access to their players won't be at the whims of the county managers. Not one complainant has put forward anything resembling a viable alternative. They don't have one.

Simply screaming you want things to back to the way they were without offering anything remotely like a plan to do so is just mouthing for the sake of mouthing. And that's all they have, mouthing about nostalgia.

Any statement about extending the inter-county scene into the summer makes no mention of sacrificing time elsewhere in the inter-county season. It's essentially a call to tell the clubs to "fcuk off, we're more important than you so you give up what little you have so we can have more". It's a rotten self-entitled attitude.

And if the inter-county scene wants September All-Ireland's, then let's go back to straight knockout so the clubs have times to play their games. If the inter-county scene isn't willing to make sacrifices, then why should the clubs? At the end of the day its the clubs who facilitate and allow the inter-county scene, not the other way around.

Besides, as is there's January, February, March, April, May, June and half of July, never mind the prep work started in November onwards in most county panels. And unlike the club scene, hurling and football at inter-county doesn't have to facilitate dual players.

If you cant run a season with 5-8 weeks prep work and 6.5 months of playing time allocated to you where hurling and football can be played alongside each other bar 4/5 weekends at the end of the season, while counties balance running hurling and football championships that can't be played on the same weekend due to dual players in around 3/4 months, it says a lot about the mismanagement and set up of the inter-county season.

And even more so about the enormous sense of entitlement of it.