We'll probably delay planning permission until the next global crisis and then bin it again on cost grounds and on and on it goes. It takes far too long to develop these projects in Ireland.
Extra.ie isn’t exactly a reliable news source.
I heard on Newstalk this morning that to get two water fountains installed in 2 football clubs, 12 submissions had to be made to 6 different government bodies.
For a water fountain…. that is absolutely nuts
Mod: an we stick to Metrolink as in the title!
Been saying it for years that this is the plan. Feign "progress" in the planning process but string it out long enough until the reason is there again to pull the plug.
It's so transparent this is all a charade.
If they really wanted to build it it would have been completed over a decade a go.
The politicians don't have the courage to scrap it so round and round we go and the smoke and mirrors will go on.
This is an incredibly stupid theory that makes no sense on any level.
It makes total sense and that is how it has played out since 2005.
No politician wants to tell the residents in North Dublin, some of whom purchased homes on the basis they would get this service, that they've been had since the day Bertie first brought the metro proposal up.
There is no intention of the Dept of Finance funding this project and a shovel is never going in to the ground.
It's all the most transparent charade as I said but feel free to believe otherwise.
Yes, because constantly talking about, yet failing to deliver, key infrastructure is a prime winning political strategy.
Every newspaper article about the missed deadlines, increased cost projections and planning overruns is hundreds of more votes in the bag.
They wanted to do this with the Luas too, but due to plain incompetence they accidently actually built it.
Dude, please… There is no Luas. Never was. It was never built. I can’t believe you could fall for such a transparent con.
If this damn thing could just get out of planning, we’ll have main construction started within 18 months. That sounds like a long time, but tendering and contract award for a project of this size isn’t exactly a spit and a handshake in a carpark. But enabling works (site clearance, utilities, etc) could go ahead much quicker.
They're gearing up for the procurement and delivery stages anyway. Following the recruitment patterns of firms involved in the Client Partner team, like Mace and T&T, tells a fair amount on where the project team is at. It's more positive than reading news articles!
Slightly OT, but I had a crazy dream last night, one part of which was that I read on here that Metrolink had been granted its RO.
On reflection, that should have been the hint that I was dreaming...
Maybe it wasn’t a dream, but a vision of the next century? 😅
To clarify my position: I do not believe that it there is a strategy behind the cycle of delays and cancellations only for it all to restart once global crisis x or y has passed. I thinks it's simpy because it takes far too long to progress these large projects to construction that there is always an opportunity for a global crisis to come along and put paid to any given project. If things were progressed to construction as fast as Madrid or even Munich, we'd be compelled to finish them, crisis or no crisis. Nothing is safe until large scale works have properly begun.
I despise this sort of conspiratorial nonsense.
Yes there are a 101 legitimate complaints that are unacceptable and those are what should be the focus. Not some emotive nonsense.
Really? I see it the other way around. There is a strategy behind the cycles of delays and waiting for their usual money shot of a global crisis for them to kill it off until the MetroNUA project is announced five years later. In fact, I would take my life savings and bring to the bookies completely certain that'll I have booked a winner betting on this metro never being built for this reason alone. They opened a platform in Cork last week as if it was Crossrail or the New York East Side project. That is their entire rail rail transport agenda from independence until the sun turns supernova. Cut costs, cheap fixes, big announcements. Loads of plans and consultants…RINSE-REPEAT.
"Usual money shot of a global crisis"
That's true once, is it not?
It happened once when the country was in an IMF bailout programme.
The DART proposals outside of the coastal line never got near to where DART Underground / Metro North and Metrolink have gotten to.
If the State cancelled things because of every global crisis, Metrolink would have been cancelled during Brexit and also COVID-19.
I agree about all complaints on delays but really hate the conspiratorial stuff. It distracts from real improvements that can be made to projects like this.
Imo, our politicians are inept, and our planning process isn’t fit for purpose.
Who in particular in power wants to halt these projects? And why?
And why didn’t they stop these Luas lines being built and all the subsequent extensions? Why didn’t they stop the Clonsilla-M3 Parkway line? Why didn’t they stop the reopening of the PPT?
I don't think they're deliberately conspiring but the lack of ambition and political will effectively produces the same result. That's why these projects don't survive crises and why 2027 - the year we were meant to be flying to the airport on Metro, zipping along new BusConnects corridors, and speeding down the country on DART - will limp into view with most of the promised projects not even started never-mind delivered.
I agree half the Government being gathered at the opening of an EU-funded train platform was staggeringly embarrassing (meanwhile the so-called Phase 2 projects that would actually sweat the new infrastructure and give Cork an excellent train network were quietly downgraded to "future possibilities"). But what else do they have to talk about? They've delivered less than nothing.
The only thing that will kill off the cynicism is to actually get these projects started and delivered.
Once Dubliners zip around on Metro within days they'll want another 5 lines. Maybe then we'll get a political constituency for it. The relative success of Luas shows it can be done even in an Irish context, especially when the ruined IE/CIE brand is removed from the picture.
But the works down at Kent station in Cork and various other projects around the country like re-opening the Foynes line, the C2CC, new bus depots, etc. are a sign of projects finally not only getting started, but delivered!
Sure, they may not be very big "sexy" projects like Metrolink, etc. but the point is the above were some of the first projects to get through planning and after planning, they started construction and now delivered, that is very good news and IMO a sign that the government is serious about delivering these projects.
The first BusConnects corridor projects are currently being tendered, to start construction later this year and before you know it half of Dublin will be dug up, people will definitely notice then!
The new DART+ fleet are arriving and the charging infrastrucutre is being installed in Drogheda.
DART+ SW and West are out for tender.
Sure Metrolink is still stuck in ABP and that is disappointing, but there is a real notable uptick in ABP approvals of big projects and the JR courts looks like it is starting to get moving and we are seeing tenders awarded and projects started.
It has definitely taken too long to get to this point, but finally it is starting to look up.
I'm actually starting to think this may not actually happen again, the way the world is going. Hopefully I'm wrong. Wars galore kicking off. Trump. God knows what will happen in the next few years.
Currently on paper it should definitely happen though after being kicked around the courts.
So, I think we all assumed this anyway, but someone in TII expects the ABP decision on this to be in "late 2025."
Absolutely ridiculous the amount of time it takes to get projects through ABP.
So if it gets granted then it goes to getting bounced around the courts because of people objecting?
Which raises the real possibility of a decision being pushed well into 2026 considering how inaccurate ABP's 'timelines' have been in the past. Frustrating to say the least.
There is currently a midterm review of the National Development Plan underway. It'll be interesting to see what its findings are in respect of Metrolink.
Yes, probably a year at least in the planning courts.
The webinar that the article references is available here.
https://www.ice.org.uk/events/recorded-lectures/metrolink-procuring-ireland-s-first-megaproject
Is it possible that Luas Finglas gets a RO before this? This would be insane given part of the assumption of many has been that NTA slow rolled new Luas development in order to prioritise Metrolink and avoid people claiming that the Luas was a worthy substitution.
The only hope out of such an extended process is that it shuts off JR routes, however, the recent evidence has not been encouraging on that front.
I do think we need to consider that the timelines being stated build in that ABP further delay though.
The ducks are getting put in a row in the background at least.
Shambles, no other word to describe it. It simply wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere, the government would intervene and direct the planning body to issue its decision by a deadline.
This will end up in JR anyway so there is no justification for continuous delay.
Whatever happened with all the fanfare around restructuring ABP, increasing staff numbers etc?
Also what do the decision "deadlines" actually mean in practice? Given they can be completely ignored seemingly without consequence I guess it's just a meaningless placeholder
It is my big criticism of Eamonn Ryan. There is a streak to the Greens who are all about the "proper planning" lark that they imo put ahead of actual progress of their real core issues at times.
Not to blame the Greens for the whole thing either, but an observation about Eamonn as Minister (who I believe did good things overall, not least not dismantling the whole thing as he had suggested he would in 2020). I think he could have gotten involved in the media more to say it is such a way that those craving a trip to European Courts couldn't get around.
Everyone is afraid of being seen to be on the big side of the argument over the little guy.
