Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
It does beg the question if Piardi knew about the issues with the app; and if so he should have been more hands-on with the process, imo.
Indeed, there's an argument he should have been more hands-on independent of that, or a process should have been more clearly defined since the last time this happened Munster.
But even besides that, I'd agree with this part of the statement tbh:
Referees will be made aware that they must own the process and reminded that they are ultimately responsible and accountable for the final decision of the correctness of any substitutions and all decisions during a match.
I generally have some sympathy for referee's - genuinely think it's the hardest sport to ref - but that sympathy wanes when you consider 1) this is the 2nd time this has happened Munster this season (which is shocking) and 2) the tap and go that was missed, which is something that would have taken about 5 seconds to review.
Surely the ref needs to be satisfied with the reasoning for taking off a player though as has the ultimate say over what happens. He merely has to ask to do a 10 second run through the protocol and ask whether player 1 was a HIA or contact injury and whether player 2 was a HIA or contact injury and then he'll know whether they need to go down to 14 players. It was a wider failure here anyway and it's madness that none of the professional officiating team knew the laws without recourse to an app to tell them!
I think the ref can signal a HIA, especially if it is coming from the independent matchday doc, but I don't think he necessarily has to. It can be originated by the team's doctor/physio as well as I understand it and they may just tell the 4th official. Either way, the ref has enough to keep track of that I would not blame him for not remembering that the guts of an hour later.
I wouldn't absolve him completely mind you. And the officiating team as a whole made a colossal screw up.
It was implied….
who said it shouldnt be discussed?
I said as much after the game but the ref is also probably the first official to signal a HIA to the sideline. He should be aware that one of the front row players when off for a HIA. I mean we had a poster here during the week having a cut off the captain for not intervening or not knowing the laws, surely, if the expectation is for the captain to know who is subbed and why then you should have the higher expectation of the ref who only has one job and that is to officiate the game, including subs on/off.
I really wouldn't blame the ref that much. He is not the one recording why players are being taken off the pitch - that is on the 4th official.
There was literally a statement on it today, for what was the biggest refereeing blunder I can remember since…. the last time it happened to Munster this season.
It was obviously going to be discussed on here…
It's a fairly useless statement in reality. If a ref can't remember the laws then he shouldn't be a ref. I know there's interpretation in some aspects of the game and consideration for keeping a game moving and entertaining which can lead to misapplication or loose application, but this was a basic failure of the entire officiating team to understand a clear law... and not for the first time! There's not that many laws and interpretations for a professional ref to know. Imagine if he was paid to be a professional lawyer or judge with far more extensive laws, interpetarion and precedent to know. It wouldn't be good enough for the justice system to hold their hands up and go "ah the judge didn't know the law and the internet was down in the court that day so he ruled against you and we won't be trying to reverse any prejudice suffered".
Are these learnings taken from the learnings from the first time it happened this season? Or are they standalone learnings?
If it happens again will they take learnings from the learnings from the learnings?
What a useless statement. No apology in it. No confirmation of any consequences only to clarify what we thought were consequences actually are not consequences.
The app was broken. Honestly. Professional sport.
And a helpful reminder the ref is in charge.
The issue raised its head again by the URC statement, are we not allowed discuss it?
If you're not happy with the discussion you can ignore the thread.
Munster have bigger issues on hand like the game tonight. Must win.
our dog ate my homework, sir.
The statement is a joke. The league are blaming an app rather than putting their hand up and saying the officials got it wrong. The closest they come is saying officials have to own the process. Nonsense. If the 5 officials on the day couldn't reach the right conclusion without the help of an app then they shouldn't be officiating. Not even an apology. Useless statement.
what else do you propose be done?
I'm a fan, I can't implement anything but I can tell you this, their most recent statement wouldn't fill you with confidence that it won't happen again.
I think the URC and Henning in particular have washed their hands of this issue and it happened twice on their watch this season.
They are but what else do you propose be done?
Are they not the same or similar actions taken after the same thing happened in Croke Park v Leinster
Some bit of clarity around what happened, chiefly:
The "actions taken" wouldn't exactly fill you with confidence tho…
Positive to see a formal statement on the matter with follow up actions included
I'm sorry it never worked out for Milne in Leinster. I do think there's an international standard player in there with an uninterrupted run of fitness.
His scrummaging has had some lowlights but also some very promising moments. He's held his own and gotten the better of some excellent South African props for example.
I think he should be looking to Jeremy Loughman as an example of how his career can go. Over 100 Munster caps and a few Ireland caps is a career many don't get but it's well within his reach. I think Milne is a better player than Loughman is now. So with some consistent game time I hope he can kick on.
I don't think he'll be a 50 cap international. But I see no reason why he can't get 20
Yeah but sure, S&C not an issue…
You could also phrase it that they won 2 of their last 10 games across all competitions Vs munster who won 5 games in that time
Sounded more impressive in my head being honest, but I still say that on paper we have the beatings of them
I've often questioned the injury profile & was repeatedly told that these things happen as part of the rugby cycle & we were just going through a bad run.
The quality of our extended squad is quite poor & any player loss due to injury is thus exacerbated.
Ged MC has departed so maybe there is a shift in things s & c wise
😂😂 Feck sake, I thought the IT would be better than that, I just checked their results there and you are correct. Amateur mistake on my side trusting an article.
That "statistic" is just ridiculous! You could equally phrase it that they've won only one home game since they beat Cheatah's in the Challenge Cup in December!
Didn't realise Cardiff were on a bit of a winning streak at home - from the Irish times article.
Cardiff haven’t lost at home since January, but it is the visitors that start the match as six-point favourites with the bookmakers. Munster must be wary of turning over ball against a backrow containing two superb poachers and a Cardiff backline that has oodles of pace.
It is pretty clear that Munster have an S&C issue.
No way it is pure coincidence that season after season they have been decimated with injuries and consistent sick note players for them leave and their issues significantly reduce.
Not a bad team on paper. Good that Haley is back. Looking forward to seeing how Milne gets on. I think Kleyn is being paired with the young props on the bench to help them in the scrum when they come on.
Worth noting that Quinn has over taken Gleeson in the backrow pecking order. Can see it too, I think Quinn has looked good in his few bench cameos. I would have liked to see him start at 6 tomorrow actually.
Do you think Munsters rate of injury is on a par with the other irish provinces?
For me, every second week it's "injury hit munster....etc".
I wasn't being patronising. Injuries are a part and parcel of a physical sport like rugby. Your statement said that it's unsustainable. Well this week Mike Haley, Calvin Nash, Gavin Coombes and Diarmuid Barron return from injury. Over recent weeks Casey, Kleyn and Abrahams also returned.
I'd expect most, if not all of the players mentioned as having knocks to be fit for Ulster and for Jager to have worked his way through the HIA process.
As I said, that's why the squads are so big.
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