Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
Different sport and different team although sometimes they use MUN on the tv broadcasts
Hmmm
It's been an issue at Munster for many years now and the question often gets asked if we are just unlucky or if there is something systemically wrong at the province
Plenty of youngsters in that team and we usually pull a few surprises when the youngsters are involved. If we can clean up the mess at the scrum, lineout, ruck and passing that we had last weekend we might just scalp them
I'm aware it's rugby. No need to be patronising.
If you think the rate of attrition is normal then I disagree. It's the shrug and "it's rugby" that leads to mediocrity imo.
It's rugby. That's why there are 40 man squads. We've a week off after tomorrow before we play Ulster. Plenty of time for the walking wounded to recover.
Another week and more injuries. It is totally unsustainable.
Given the knocks picked up against the bulls, that's as strong as it gets I suppose. Weak enough bench all the same...
I do like the look of Donnelly I have to say, but would like to see more of him in the scrum.
Munster team for tomorrow evening
No Murray, POM doesn't make it back. Haley starts.
Milne makes his debut
Maybe you need to get better at explaining stuff. Using the word 'domestic' if I didn't know would suggest a competition between teams all from the same country.
Also, you see to have confused yourself if you're saying Sharks v Leinster was in the European Cup.
The more that went on, the more I questioned if I understood anything about the rules of the maul (despite playing second row, I understand next to nothing, admittedly). How do you explain this kind of thing to a casual viewer trying to understand the game with you?
off-topic rant
I know a lot of things in rugby are sacrosanct but so much decision making seems to be just 'because…', 'vibes', shrug
I tried to explan the difference between the URC and Champions Cup to someone last week and it was colours to a blind man.
"No, it's the domestic competition this week"
"So this is to decide the Irish champions?"
"Irish, and Scottish, and Welsh, and Italian, and South African"
"What was the other week, against Hollywood Bullsharks?"
"A completely different competition. That was the European Cup."
"I thought they were South African?"
"Do you want to go out for dinner?"
But refereeing the game in the right spirit and not by the rules has caused two bad results for Munster and he should be doing the job the way it’s supposed to be done and by the rules, he wouldn’t entertain Jack when he was clearly saying the ball was off the knee and should have been looked at and a scrum. The game is not about the ref and what he wants the game played.
I think Picardi is trying to referee the game in the right spirit, but he needs to be more willing to use his officiating team more and not just go completely off his own judgement. He has made some bad calls in the last 2 games we’ve been involved in that have had major impacts. I think if just uses his 4th official or TMO, and just communicate to them that there was a call for X, can you check please, a lot of these mistakes would be cleaned up.
Like against La Rochelle, he was dead certain that Munster collapsed the maul and that it was a PT and YC. But it was clear that Skelton had the ball at the front of the maul and Munster were entitled to sack/tackle him. It led a comically long review where the TMO had no idea who to yellow card.
Not at all, I accept what I said was wrong
Piardi will not be reffing next weekend;
https://www.planetrugby.com/news/urc-referee-pays-the-price-for-munster-mare-as-nigel-owens-call-for-accountability-is-heard
You're twisting what you initially said, but that's no surprise so I'll leave you be.
We're fortunate in the sense that the 3 remaining fixtures are all against teams we're vying with for position; a win would not only give us the match points, but deny them too.
Of course, that works both ways too…. Hopefully the fact we have 2 home games should be enough to see us firmly in the top 8. I'm always wary of Cardiff, we always seem to have high-scoring games against them.
Bit of a weird one to have 3 consecutive Friday night games as well. Hopefully we'll just go out and get our business done before every one else even kicks off.
Munster could likewise argue that the penalty wasn't taken so they didn't have to be back 10
I don't think there is any question they were wronged. But the likelihood of them winning that game was always slim. Yes fair enough we scored a penalty while they had a man in the bin, so did they mind so no real advantage gained from them going down to 14
We need to win 2 of the next 3 matches, I think regardless of BPs that should secure a top 8 finish for us. In theory Cardiff and Benetton will be the tougher of the 3 tests as they sit above us in the table but all 3 of our upcoming opposition have to win to keep their hopes of the top 8 in the mix as well… Gonna be a fun last few rounds
Injury update. More positive than negative, for a change:
On the injury front following the Bulls game, Oli Jager is unavailable this weekend after a HIA on Saturday.Stephen Archer is being assessed for a shoulder injury.Diarmuid Kilgallen came through his return to action with no issues.Craig Casey (illness) and Peter O’Mahony (tight hamstring) were late withdrawals ahead of the Bulls game.Casey has returned to training and O’Mahony’s availability for Friday night will be determined later in the week.Gavin Coombes and Calvin Nash both return to training this week after missing the Bulls clash due to ankle injuries.The availability of John Hodnett (toe) and Diarmuid Barron (shoulder/arm) will be determined later in the week.Mike Haley will start reintegrating into squad training this week having been unavailable since January due to an ankle injury.Continuing to rehab: Jeremy Loughman (hamstring), Ethan Coughlan (hamstring), Billy Burns (shoulder), Shane Daly (hamstring), Dave Kilcoyne (Achilles), Liam Coombes (chest), Edwin Edogbo (Achilles), Roman Salanoa (knee).
On the injury front following the Bulls game, Oli Jager is unavailable this weekend after a HIA on Saturday.
Stephen Archer is being assessed for a shoulder injury.
Diarmuid Kilgallen came through his return to action with no issues.
Craig Casey (illness) and Peter O’Mahony (tight hamstring) were late withdrawals ahead of the Bulls game.
Casey has returned to training and O’Mahony’s availability for Friday night will be determined later in the week.
Gavin Coombes and Calvin Nash both return to training this week after missing the Bulls clash due to ankle injuries.
The availability of John Hodnett (toe) and Diarmuid Barron (shoulder/arm) will be determined later in the week.
Mike Haley will start reintegrating into squad training this week having been unavailable since January due to an ankle injury.
Continuing to rehab: Jeremy Loughman (hamstring), Ethan Coughlan (hamstring), Billy Burns (shoulder), Shane Daly (hamstring), Dave Kilcoyne (Achilles), Liam Coombes (chest), Edwin Edogbo (Achilles), Roman Salanoa (knee).
Very short at TH, but that's all of Casey, Coombes and Nash straight back into our starting 15.
Whatever about this weekend, hope POM makes it back for the following week, his last game in Thomond.
Gianluca was a little hard on Ulster last week, made some bewildering decisions..
He'll fit right in so 🤣
Cardiff Rugby v Munster
Cardiff Arms Park, Cardiff – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA / 20.35 SA
Referee: Gianluca Gnecchi (FIR, 39th league game)
AR 1: Mike English (WRU) AR 2: Aaron Parry (WRU)
TMO: Stefano Roscini (FIR)
Referee could argue that Munster weren't back ten so the attempted quick tap should be retaken. (I'm sure that some pedant can dig up a reference in the Laws to that.)
I agree where there's scope for interpretation but in this case the sanction is very clear and I've seen many players penalised with a scrum for failing to execute a tap correctly by kicking the ball forward. Usually it's failure to actually move the ball forward but it's the same thing here. A retake would be effectively allowing a team get away with miskicking a penalty kick and giving them the opportunity to take it again.
Thats taking the law as its written with no thinking of practicalities of reffing an actual game. You cant simply take it as its written all the time.
The sanction for failing to properly execute the "kick" part is very clear in the laws and it should have been a scrum.
20.11The ball must be kicked a visible distance. If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands. If it is on the ground, it must clearly leave the mark. Once the kick has been successfully taken the kicker may play the ball again. Sanction:Scrum.
Taking a penalty from the wrong spot and botching a penalty kick are two very different things, I'm not sure the ref would have allowed them to retake that kick if he deemed that they botched it. More so, if he had it checked it after it being highlighted to him. Yet, you're certain they would have another bite of the cherry and that they would have scored a try. I think we would have got a scrum.
I'm trying to recall were we down to 14 men before that penalty or not
These things (like saying we didn't score while they had a YC) are fact checkable, we didn't go down a man until Archer was subbed off and that happened in the second half. I'm not expecting anyone here, including you, to accept that I think Munster were grievously wronged on Saturday night but I do expect people proposing a different view to that to at least use facts when engaging.
The ball should go forward off the foot with clear seperation from the hands and failure to do that should result in a scrum. He effectively knocked the ball forward with his upper leg so it's not a retake but a scrum.
Edit to add correct citation - World Rugby law 20.8 on how a penalty must be taken: “The kicker may punt, drop-kick or place-kick (other than for touch) the ball." World Rugby also clarified that a kick is deemed to be contact with the leg below the knee, not including the knee.
Not always. All depends on circumstances of game. If you take law as its in law book yes but you cant do that all the time in reality.
Are you sure that if the ref pulled The Bulls for an incorrect tap & go that he allows them retake the penalty? Is it not a scrum to Munster
I've often seen a team take the penalty from the wrong spot ans score a "try" only for the ref to call them back, move them a few inches and let them retake the penalty. Usually a tap-and-go follows a failed one because of the momentum gained but I suppose we don't know what would have happened in reality
Earlier in the thread you said we didn't score why they were down a man, we did.
Yeah, a botched tap should result in a scrum and not a re-take so there would have been no score there.
It would have resulted in a scrum to Munster. It's covered under Law 20.11. It was a very costly error from Piardi. Unfortunately it wasn't the only one on the night.
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