We were talking about fraud.
But if you want to add that to the thread's ever lengthening Re-turn rap sheet go ahead.
That's why loads of people ate getting DPF and Advlue mapped out of their cars.
I think the return machines will eventually be scrapped and the charge will just be kept as a tax.
Is it really true that smokeless coal does not throw out a flame?
Greenwashing is a bad in Ireland as I've seen anywhere. Saying that we invented these sort of schemes after all.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Hospitals%27_Sweepstake
It would be interesting to see the original bar code for that coke can.
Maybe the importer tried to register the original code in the way @L1011 you describe is done for low volume craft beers, but Re-turn refused to allow it for the specific bar code requested and asked the importer to use a specific code instead?
Or could the Danish DRS quango have a requirement that any item carrying a Danish bar code needs to be relabelled on export to avoid having to pay the Danish deposit.
I doubt it's fraud, I think it's the out workings of a bureaucracy where the importer is engaging with DRS authorities, who have red tape reasons for not allowing the original barcode, but at the same time cannot impede legitimate EU trade.
Getting and retaining money you are not entitled to is the charge I am laying on them. I think that's fair.
Under the legislation they are entitled to collect the deposits.
They also have to retain the money collected in order to refund the deposits when the containers are returned.
Re-turn must be, at this time, preparing the narrative to explain the unclaimed reserve mountain of cash accumulated after year 1.
I would say it's heading for €100m and still growing, but they may be able to creatively pick a reporting year end date like 30 June 2024 to hide most of it for another 12 months.
Some tactics we might expect to explain away any concerns about the 9-figure cash reserve:
It will be interesting to see how they explain it, I wonder when we will hear some numbers? It would be nice to see them questioned on it before an Oireachtas committee but I can't see it happening.
Yes unfortunately very little flame now and more of a glow.
If there is a vast mountain of money left unclaimed, that would be an argument for varying the scheme. This is provided for in the legislation. Trump's madness may lead to a change in behaviour, if living standards fall. Otherwise a One Euro deposit may be needed to bring people to their senses.
"The Minister may set, and adjust, the deposit amount or amounts after consultation with an approved body, where it appears that –
(a) the cost is insufficient to incentivise consumers to return in-scope bottles and in-scope containers to the scheme, or
(b) the revenues returned to the approved body from the scheme are exceeding or are insufficient to cover operational costs."
The best thing to do with the unclaimed money would be fund a bulk return machine in every decent sized town in the country if it's an increase in recycling numbers they want.
Is the unclaimed money all from people not retuning their containers and redeeming the cash?
Would it not be tricky to implement a sharp increase as people would bulk buy with 15c, hold on to containers, and then return for €1.
Would massively impact supply chain and returns processes, but would certainly turn the cash mountain into a canyon.
Or else, do it much like the launch with every bar code replaced, transition periods with old and new barcodes, etc.
To avoid / minimise the impacts above I think they could only increment it maybe by less than 5c a year.
Yes, all of it.
Some though would be normal, i.e. because there is a lag between buying an item and bringing it back, some deposits accrue. But a large portion and growing are for bottles thrown away or recycled outside DRS.
Well isnt that then an easy explanation?
If customers dont return the container, that is on the customer. Not the fault of the scheme itself.
€1 would probably not encourage some people. Not only do they not bother with their 15/25 cents, they throw away a lot of the liquid as well. It's a sign of how prosperous the country is.
People can still recycle the containers wiithout taking them to a DRS machine. If they were proposing increases on the deposit they should first understand how many DRS containers are being recycled by other means.
Indeed. But it would encourage more people to root through bins and leave waste all over the street, in search of lucrative 1 euro cans.
If DRS has spare money, they should be made invest some of it in providing more secure public bins.
Nah Id say its due to Re-Turn being the most anti-customer DRS Ive seen posted here. 54,000,000 euro in unrefunded deposits is some slush fund to have after only 12 months.
Would you agree with the CEO saying people just dont want their money back?
Yes, true, but the amount of cash is inversely proportionate to the schrmes success.
A high accumulation of cash indicates the scheme is not meeting it's collection targets, and / or engaging consumers.
The most anti-customer DRS I've seen posted here is from Australia.
How much of the 54 million is still recycled?
Isnt the aim of the scheme to get people to recycle?
Or people are recycling the containers at home, just like they did before DRS.
We need to know how much of that 54 million is being recycled.
increasing the price of a can to 2.15 from 1.15 isnt increasing the deposit, it is increasing the price of the product.
If you increase the deposit to 30 cent, the can should still cost 1.15, but you get 30 cent back instead of 15 cent.
I think there is a subtle difference. The specific aim of the scheme is to get consumers to return their drinks containers. Circular initiative, uncontaminated chain, etc, etc.
containers can still be contaminated with DRS, the same as they can with home recycling.
I am not sure we should be encouraging people to drive and add unnecessary emissions and traffic to our roads, just to recycle a product, when the exact same thing can be done at home.
Waste companies will soon start fining people for not recycling, so home compliance will improve.
No-one knows how much is recycled. No figures are available. Putting a container into an RVM ≠ container recycled. All targets are collection targets despite what it might say on the re-turn.ie homepage. This has been clearly shown in the EU legislation if you want to look a few pages back in this thread.
We do know Re-Turn has 54,000,000 euro of our money.
They cannot claim the 54 million hasnt been recycled. They dont know that, perhaps the waste companies do.
DRS introduced price rises from the start. a euro soft drink can went up to 1.15, with 15 cent the price of the deposit.
This is a product price increase, not a deposit. We may well see future "deposit" rises, but notice when they come that the price of the can does not stay at 1.15.
The long game will see the volume of cans/plastic bottle sales drastically reduce, which I assume is the real target.
Is there a list of locations with bulk machines? It would definitely encourage me to shop there
Next year lets compare total plastic bottles sold in 2025 to the total for 2024.
