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Soot build up in oil boiler

mp3ireland2

Hi,

I'm having ongoing issues with the oil burner not burning clean. This then means the photocell is getting blocked and it's not firing up.

I've kept it servided since we moved in and the boiler service guy has called a couple of times to check the gas comosition and clean it out. THis time he modified the baffles a litte and was confident this would sort it.

I'm wondering if the fact that I've put a new door and new window in the shed so there's now no draught would impact things. When he's checking the flu gas the door could be open or was open recently so the air is fresh. What I don't know is how to check if I have a balanced flu or a standard one. If it is a balanced one my theory would probably carry little weight!

The boiler was serviced last March, it then wasn't used until mid November and a month later the photocell issue arose. I have to clean it every couple of days so the incomplete burning is quite bad.

The boiler is a Firebird Enviromax Popular 26kW installed 19 April 2010. That's a photo of the flu.

I did email firebird and the asked for some info but I'm waiting on them to get back to me.

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Wearb

It's most likely a balanced flue, but possibly not being used like that. Sometimes the flue seal breaks down and the tech might pull the snorkel pipe off.

Take off the front cover and take a few pics, also of both ends of the flexible air pipe.

jimf

you need to stop cleaning the photocell this is only making the problem worse and stop using boiler

these boilers can be a bitch to set up properly do you have a print out of the flugas analysis post pic if you have

they are also suspect to wind direction because of the burner been on top

jimf

is this discharging in to a confined area looks like it is in pic you posted

also post pic of very bottom of boiler where the plastic hose is connected

mp3ireland2

Hi thanks for the interest. It's discharing out the back of a garden, it's not very sheltered. The photo may have been misleading.

I don't have a print out unfortunately.

When you say take off the cover fix you mean the wire guard or is there another cover? I didn't get a chance to do either but I did get some photos. I'll take off cover tomorrow.

The holes in the second photo are underneath the flue

Hopefully some of the photos are useful. Maybe it is just coincidence that this issue occurred after I replaced the door and window in the shed but it was just a thought I had.

jimf

on the last pic can you post a photo of the front where there is a little dial showing numbers

door and window not the issue as the air is been taken from the outside with the balance flu hose

mp3ireland2

Here's the numbers.

jimf

theres your issue boiler is way under aired you need a new service person that knows what their at

these boilers are usually around 3.5 to 4 on that dial

VERY IMPORTANT you do not adjust this yourself as its done in conjunction with a nozzle change and pressure gauge to check boiler is running at manf recommended pressure

to go adjusting this yourself could lead to a boiler producing dangerously high carbon monoxide levels

this applies to any boiler not just yours

its an easy fix for somebody with experience

mp3ireland2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123273805#Comment_123273805

Thanks, it's disappointing that the original servicer didn't pick up on this.

With no knowledge on the subject, I would have assumed a flue gas analysis would have indicated it was underaired so it's strange that he didn't pick it up.

Thanks for your advice.

jimf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123273919#Comment_123273919

the thing with this boiler it needs more air than the manf paperwork recommend

its a long story but but but

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123273919#Comment_123273919

The core issue is more rooted in the boiler design, than the service person. Firebird had some great boilers in the past but really let themselves down when they released this one. There has been various improvements since, but they have struggled to regain market share.

The solution to your issue is to have your service person use the following settings;

0.6 80ES Nozzle

Oil Pump pressure: 9.5 bar.

CO2 - 11.2% max

Remove flap from snorkel on balanced flue.

Replace condensate trap with stainless steel variant and renew condensate hose.

Clean the whole thing out and it should be ok.

Fit a grant vortex the next time.

jimf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123274620#Comment_123274620

agree 100% but if the service person doesnt know the fix and goes by the book

mp3ireland2

Thanks all, I contaced my service guy and he wasn't aware of the updated settings, he was going by the book. I told him I was in touch with Damien in firebird and I got some information about updated setttings to get around the design flaw…I then shared the info provided above. I was in touch with Damien but he didn't get back to me lately. The service guy was going by the orignal settings: .65 80 es nozzle and 11.5 on co2 8 bar oil pressure

jimf

in theory its an upside down boiler

the design is trying to force heat down when it naturally wants to rise good idea to hold as much heat in the chamber for as long as possible

but the flue way up the back of the boiler was too narrow and restricted the gasses from getting away cleanly

firebird cant for obvious reasons are not going to admit this

lenars post above explains the fix perfectly

the little bit of efficiency lost is not even 1% and a lot better than a sooty boiler once a month

as stated earlier cleaning the photocell to keep the boiler running is only making the problem worse as you are sooting it up more

you are fixing the problem not the cause

mp3ireland2

Adjusted boiler to new settings, and upgraded/replaced parts as per guidance above but still getting the build up.

Could something have failed that would cause this?

The boiler was working ok on the manufactuing settings for a couple of years, i would only need to clean the sensor once per year (not ideal I know), so I don't know what changed that it was then a weekly or even more frequent failure. WE were keeping the same settings and getting it serviced once a year.

The boiler isn't kicking in as much now with the warmer weather so it's hard to tell if things did improved as I'd expect it to take longer to clog up when running less.

Maybe i should get a second boiler repair person but I'd like to find somebody who already knows about the Firebird settings ideally and familiar with it. Suppose I'll just need to contact some people and ask

jimf

what area are you in maybe somebody on here may be able to help and cover your area

mp3ireland2

I'm in Gorey in Wexford, one of the lads on here did give me the name of a guy in county Wexford that he rated highly, but unfortunately he didn't come up at far as Gorey he said.

Its a frustrating one, and I'm guessing a new boiler would be about 3.5k installed so worth getting a second look.

It's 16 years old, wood you typically get more than that?

Wearb

You should keep it going until it leaks water. 16 years is about 2/3rd lifespan for a well installed and maintained one. They do benefit from an automatic bypass.

mp3ireland2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123391236#Comment_123391236

Thanks, hopefully I can get to the bottom of this issue!

Wearb

What's the condition of the baffles. Did you ever take a pic when the service guy had them out?

Are the electrodes property set? Is the head burned?

mp3ireland2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123391915#Comment_123391915

I'm afraid I've always been at work when he was here so I've never had a chance to check anything.

I would hope that he'd be aware of the things you mention as they sound like standard things you'd check during a service, especially if he knows there's an issue….however I've no way to know.

He did mention that the baffles can be a factor and he cut the corners off them, I'm not sure if that sounds like the right thing to do?

Wearb

I've never done that (though i wouldn't be too critical of it) to the baffles. Some of the experienced lads on here have bent the corners a little. I've never done it. I've found that setting to lowest allowed output and about 0.2% lower co2 than recommended by manual (always allowing for air inlet temperature) works for me. AND of course a properly done annual service.

You might need to replace a couple of baffles after about a decade. Badly warped baffles can make them difficult to setup properly and shorten the period needed between service.

Those boilers do have the weakness mentioned, but can be OK with proper annual service. Otherwise they can have a snowball effect of escalating problems and shortened lifespan.

Oil boilers are worth looking after as they have a depreciation of about €200 per year, so every year extra is worth €200.

jimf

just had a look back there at all the photos you posted

post 5 shows the flue discharge but it doesnt seem to have a diverter for the flue gasses

in other words the air intake can be contaminated by the discharging gasses

especially if the wind is blowing in the wrong direction and into the flue

a 1mtr plume kit to take the discharge higher would certainly be a help

have you noticed the photocell issue worse with windy conditions

jimf

to test for contaminated air intake you need a flugas analyser

to do above a small hole is made in the air intake hose and the probe of the analyser is inserted

air intake should be reading 20.9 % if fluctuating its a problem

mp3ireland2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123392586#Comment_123392586

I haven't noticed any wind related issues but I suppose it's not an instant thing, it's more of a gradual build up so it's hard to know .

I suppose the thing that could rule this out a bit, would be for the first two years after we moved in, it wasn't a very bad issue .. Clean it once a year but something changed the past year

I assume the service guy would have noticed the flu gas composition being off.

I had seen mention of those kits in other forums. Appreciate you taking the time to look into it

mp3ireland2

Thanks for all the help on this one, a lot of good advice.

I have installed a vent in the garage and we are going to run the boiler taking air from the room. The Boiler guy had left it like this and i thought he just didn't connect up a hose after cleaning, so last one was my fault. He things the exhaust gas is getting back into the system due to a leak in the flu. He didn't seem keen to take the flu out and no harm to have a vent on the garage anyway, I had put a new door and new windows in it so it was fairly airtight.

I won't know if this fixes it until the heating is back on in mid November, that's how far we got last season anyway!

There was a light layer of suit on the inside of the air intake flu, so maybe that's indiciative of the leak, or maybe that just happens anyway!