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Nimbyism and value of houses.

political analyst

I've heard of long-term residents in some areas objecting to the building of housing estates because they're worried that the value of their own homes would be undermined by the people who would live in those estates, i.e. Not In My Backyard (NIMBY)

If the long-term residents are happy with the houses that they bought then they're unlikely to sell up. So why would they be worried about the value of their homes being reduced?

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Flinty997

It should be obvious why losing money makes people worried.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123274085#Comment_123274085

But they've already bought their houses - so how would they still be losing money if there's a new housing estate in their area?

ElJaguar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058403061/nimbyism-and-value-of-houses

Some people don't want anything built in their area.

BANANA - Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

kowloonkev

It's about money because if a load of scangers move in across the road then they might want to sell, but because the value has reduced, they won't be able to buy in a nice area.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123274192#Comment_123274192

Because that's how real estate works. It's effected by things around it. If those things are higher value they raise the value. If they are of lower value they lower the value.

Build a student pub and flats beside a mansion it's going to devalue the mansion, and you probably won't want to live there.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123274204#Comment_123274204

If people propose building stupid stuff they should expect resistance. Most of the planning is bat crazy. Housing stuffed into locations without any resources or services to support it. Then in a few years all those new residents will be moaning about school places, GP, and traffic.

littlefeet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123274250#Comment_123274250

There was hysteria about Adamstown when it was first being built, it was the usual, media, irish time, architects as cultural commentators giving out, at the present moment it's a great community.

Look at the history of judicial reviews of planning and see whos funded them it revels s lot.

Flinty997

It's not like people object to all "estates", there are different types of estates.

You can have an estate of millionaire homes and you can have one thats a no go area for cops and the Alsatians walk back to back.

There are all kinds of estates. Much of the objections in Ireland are around poor planning.

Ubbquittious

This is what happens with the financialisation of the housing market.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123279119#Comment_123279119

…yup, its a train wreck, and its slowing collapsing to!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123279119#Comment_123279119

More how the lack of policing impacts social problems. You have places like Austria where public housing doesn't have the same issues.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123279417#Comment_123279417

They look after the poor craythurs a bit better but really they have the same system we do

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123279590#Comment_123279590

Actually they don't. Or didn't. russian money flooded their market and utterly distorted it.

TerrieBootson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058403061/nimbyism-and-value-of-houses

Sinn Fein lads are serial objectors in areas they own houses.

walshb

I have to laugh at old usual excuses people give… “not here, we can hardly cope with the amenities that we have.” Shut up, and spit it out.. NIMBY. Nothing to be ashamed of. It’s a natural human condition/trait. We’re tribal. Always have been and always will be

whisky_galore

People in their comfortable little rut pulling up the ladder.

Flinty997

Luckily the planners can't count either so will allow all sorts of mad over development trying to fit a gallon into pint pot.

But the solution is more cycle lanes. Fit more people on bicycles than cars and vans.

thereiver

If you are living next to a field and suddenly there's a 100 houses there it's not so quiet there.s more traffic also ten per cent of house probably be social or low cost housing People fear the value of the house they bought will fall . When an ordinary house costs 300k it's easy to understand why people are concerned about new housing in the areas nearby

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123279590#Comment_123279590

Vienna provides social, affordable housing for about 50% of the population. That's not really the same system as we do.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123280513#Comment_123280513

…and Singapore more so, theres something seriously wrong with our fire sector centered and lead approach!

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123279417#Comment_123279417

You really need to look at history to see how some countries have better things than we do. Austria was bombed a lot during both WWs and the state had to build housing. They didn't sell it to the residents and kept it in public hands. They could do this because they had money. They already had a communist view on property before this so had already got the model in place.

Ireland had no money to the extent it was the Jesuits who helped build our social housing in the 50s. They insisted on houses not apartments due fear of "shared hallways". Older large building were run down and there were no wealthy people about to maintain them so they became tenements. By the 70s and 80s the government couldn't really afford to maintain the social housing they had and sold a lot to the residents. So we ended up with little social housing stock and they started using private landlords.

To really have the same situation as Austria you need a time machine and stacks of money to make it happen. A completely different economy back in 1900s and afterwards. The government simply don't own enough property to provide social housing on the same scale. They can't afford to buy it now nor enough time to build.

NIMYBYs are not as simple as losing value but the change of what they bought. IT is difficult to get doctors appointments n many parts of Dublin. Throw more people into the mix and it gets more difficult. The traffic increase is a bit deal along with public transport. Living closer to the city means it is harder to get on public transport as it is filled by the time it arrives.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123280666#Comment_123280666

They say that the best time to plant a tree was fifty years ago. The second best time is today.

It's the same with social housing. We have to start somewhere.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123280699#Comment_123280699

Which is what we are doing along with making private estates have to have social housing. We won't ever really catch up because private ownership is historically important here.

I always wonder what happened to all the money paid to councils for not providing social housing in estates. Very little is said about it but they didn't build housing with it

randd1

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the greatest tragedy in this country in modern times is that we stopped seeing houses as homes and started seeing them ways to make money.

The second we decided as a country to treat housing as a ponzi scheme, the worse things have gotten.

Nimybism I can understand if you want to make sure that resources, such as proper water, sewage, flood controls, school spaces etc. are in place before you land housing estates around in order to prevent a lack of resources, but nimbyism to prevent people from owning homes because you want to profit on a house in a few years? Fcuk that.

As much as we need more housing, we also need an attitude adjustment. The sooner we houses as a place to set down roots for life instead of a way to fleece people, the better.

And for the love of God, do something about planning and regulations, there's modern houses built for 300K that have half the comfort, space and quality of build of houses built 50/60 years ago for 30K. Honestly I think the main reason why house prices are so high and why so little housing is being built is because everyone it seems has to wet their beak, you don't need half the permits or regulations, or indeed the costs.

StupidLikeAFox

Everyone should be allowed have a say on a development that might affect them or their community. If they raise a valid objection the development shouldn't go ahead. If it's invalid it should be rejected. Not sure where the issue is

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123280666#Comment_123280666

It's a different mindset...

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/10/the-social-housing-secret-how-vienna-became-the-worlds-most-livable-city

In Ireland we create getto's and communities with no amenities or access to transport.

Then if people object to this spam of bad planning it's called NIMBY. Ironically it's the people wanting too fast track these nonsensical developments that are causing their own problems. It's contributing to the boom and bust cycles that will haunt them for decades later.

SuperBowserWorld

The funny one is people who would bury nature under tons of concrete to make a quick buck becoming suddenly very interested in Barn Owls and Badgers when someone wants to build near by.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123281010#Comment_123281010

boom bust is largely due to the fictionalisation of our asset markets, of which property and land is now a fundamental part of, the main catalysts of this approach are known as the fire sectors, of which now play a major role in irish property and land markets!

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123280905#Comment_123280905

You can say it as many times as you like but it won't make it true. Property development has always been about making money. Nothing has changed. The lack of housing is due to risks making it a bad investment to develop property. People invested elsewhere.

Saying house were built better in the 70s and 80s is ridiculous. They don't match modern building standards are are a lot less comfortable to live in by being cold and difficult to heat. They may have been bigger in some cases but households are smaller now. Modern building pays it's workers more, materials are more expensive, safety standards are way higher etc… SO they are more expensive to build. Dual salaries became a thing so property became more expensive as people paid more for less houses about.

There are people who keep saying property prices will crash because there was a crash before when house prices went up. The market is totally different now and there is no vast workforce we can tap into as we did in the tiger years. So much has changed but it isn't people started valuing property over homes.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123281023#Comment_123281023

Ah now, don't be having a go a poor oul Pat Kenny.